Dosage talk

[Guest]

I think this is pretty obvious to most guys but thought it was worth talking about. Doses and sides seem to vary pretty widely. There is sort of a pair of bell curves, one for side effects and one for response and they seem almost supper impossible. As the dose goes up some guys just don't get much in the way of sides and the same guys seem to respond like crazy. Other guys are getting sides on 200 mg a week of test to the point their nips are leaking, they're bloated and skin is leaking oil. then there are the majority of guys that can take a fair amount and then the sides come. These guys probably reach a reasonably tolerable state at 1.0 to 1.5 grams of total AAS.

i think there are a lot of guys that fall right in the middle sections indicated by an imaginary 34.1 +34.1%. Then there are 13-14% of guys on either side of that. On the left these are the guys that need a bunch of ancillaries to get into the 1g range. on the right these guys can push up to 2g a week without really having to tough any ancillary or hardly any. They seem to respond really well and don't hold much water between the skin and muscle. On the far left these few % are really not very lucky at all and seem only to get sides even at 250 mg or less a week. These are the guys that no matter what they take they only gain 8-10 lbs of water, are riddled with acne and gyno and feel like ass on AAS. On the far right these 2-3% just grow and groa. 2.5 g a week and the increase in mass comes with increase in dose. Their skin is clear for the most lart and no real sides to be seen other than slabs of hanging muscle and BBer groupie chicks hanging off their arms. They getup to pretty high doses befoer ancillaries are needed.

i think there are mixed response/sides people as well. Some guys can respond well on lower doses but get sides when the dose goes up. Some guys can really push the ancillaries and if they get a decent response can look more like a guy that responds really well. so, pharmaceutically, I think it's possible to push yourself a little to the right on the bell curve say up to 10%.

My 2 cents/

[ozzy69]

Very good read thank you

[liftsiron]

Good post indeed!

[Darkness]

Good post.

You have to know who you are and it is very true people respond differently. I know people who get sides that make them look like shit and they run 3 to 5 grams anyway.

Newsflash for you: 50 lbs of bloat aint sexy!

[G.Reaper]

Great read. Always good to try various compounds to see what works for you, how it affects you, and keep sight on the end goal. It is a marathon not a race. I think a lot of times guys jump into this and want to see the dramatic overnight results and want to inject anything and everything they can to see the gains. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it! I am still at the bottom of the learning curve on this stuff so I am taking in as much info as possible to do it right.

[animal87]

cool

[Glycomann]

Over the years I think I've seen a way for most of the categories to play the game and get some decent result.


For the elite responders/low sides group: these guys have the best of all worlds. They can take 2 grams of test and hardly get a side effect. At their upper limit of test they might get some gut distension and water retention. The drier drugs are really dry for them. They make a huge difference. And the strong anabolic/androgenic stuff like tren just grow muscle. they get a little heated up and aggressive but otherwise not so bad so feel it's OK to run tren most of the year and reap the bennies. Mast just makes them drier even with high test. Everything works great and has low sides so a tryical cycle might include tren, high test and Mast. Periodically put in high dose A-bombs and dialabol to push gains. Contest time it's lots of hardeners. Winstrol goes in along with halo and maybe even anadol for added volume.

The above average responder/lowish sides guy: He is similar to the elite responder except that at the higher ranges he has some problems. In his mind he thinks/wishes he was an elite responder. He has dose related response like the elite but it falls shorter. he needs some ancillaries. high test is a problem say over 1.5 grams. Generally he can push things 80% of where the elite BBer can with ancillaries. Ancillaries have their own sides so it isn't a complete wash. He has to take breaks from high tox compounds like anadrol and tren. His friends are deca, equipoise and some of the less toxic orals for pushing things at least part of the year. anadrol and dianabol are in there at high doese par tof the time at least in bulk season prior to competition. At contest it's similar to elite guys. then after contest or after peak season he calms down using lower tox stuff.

Medium response/sides guy: 1.5 grams of test and he is having real problems. He's a bloated mess and feels like ass. He can push it close to there with ancillaries but it's almost not worth it. He is better off keeping test in there at around 2x the top of normal range (~400 mg/w tops) and adding in other compounds that are better tolerated such as equipoise, NPP, Deca, Primobolan, Masteron, Turinabol, Anavar. So to get to 2g total AAS he might do 600 test/600 deca/500 Anavar/300 Mast plus an AI and Caber and he is pretty much maxed out or sides spill over like crazy.

Low responder/high sides guy: He is pretty much relegated to low side effects compounds. Test is in there just to maintain normal function at 100-150 mg/w. This is suprisingly effective even on it's own with a lot of these guys. These guys are hormonally compromised and at 150 mg/w they are at the top of normal range on average and that is probably 3x their natural state. They can add in things like Anavar, deca 9lower end dose), Primobolan, Equipoise (low end dose). So they are looking at probably 500 mg total AAS max. The cycle might look like 150 mg test/350 mg Primo. Actually, with hard training, consistent clean diet they can look really decent. They will never get beyond a local or state level BBing show but, in general, they can look exceptional in the sporting community.

Poor responder/high sides: These guys really have it hard. You are looking at 100 mg/w test and a low dose of clean anabolic like Anavar and or Primobolan. What can I say? You can push the ancillaries and try to take more but the response is probably not there to be had. You are looking at really hormone optimization and then use of super clean anabolics at low dose to aid recovery. Higher and it's just hell on earth and since it is a fools game to macho it up and claim your superiority for your tolerance for suffering remember there are guys out there that eat Kentucky fried every day and take a gram each of tren, mast and test and feel great and find it nearly impossible to get above 8% BF.

[animal87]

I've always grew more on moderate doses than any of the guys I know that go all out with a gram or more.

[Glycomann]

Yeah 2 years ago after being off for 5 months I put on nearly 30 lbs in 8 weeks on 1/2 a gram going from 202 to 230. Then I cleaned up the diet, switched to a little bit drier compounds and dropped to 215-218 and got sexy and evil. now I'm just a 215 lb bitch on TRT. Just ask Darkness.

[willi]

Thanks for that Thread! Im one of the people who can go high with out much AI. Its truly fun.

[bufbiker]

I've been pretty much on for over 3 years. What I have done is to drop my test use to high end trt doses, 250-300mg a week. but I have increased the mg's used of whatever I am running with the test. It seems the sides I had been getting was predominantly from the test. I'm at 600mg of tren E a week with relatively nothing in the way of sides.
My current thinking is low dose test, go higher on everything else.

[Deacon]

do genetic guys who grow easily in training need less AAS? I have often seen that the more genetically inclined guys need to use less for greater gains and vice versa?

[Glycomann]

Tough to say isn't it? We never really know how much someone is taking. I've known some guys like you say. One guy took ridiculously low amounts and he grew like a weed. I knew his brother really well and his dealer. Another guy I know that had a tryout for the Nw York Jets back in the 80s took a lot but never really got sides. Another guy I know that won the Junior Nationals took a lot and never got sides until he got really high. I know he took a lot because I knew his room mate. 3 empty syringes in the garbage every morning. But according to Victor Conte there are hyper responders out thre. He should know. He doped the MLB, Olympic athletes, NFL, IFBB pros etc... etc.