JUICING AT THE AGE OF 60

[Dawgpound_Hank]

Yes stats would be important. I am5 11" and weigh 210 pounds with a disgusting 24% body fat.thats my point. Now matter how much I watch the diet I can't see getting the results I am looking for. What kind of results you ask? 220 with 8. To 10% body fat. I train five days a week with lots of intensity. I keep my reps around six to eight using as much weight as possible without a spotter. I want that 220 man. I'll do whatever it takes but I have to be realistic about it. I can't expect to get there by consuming six hundred grams of protein a day. Not happening. TEST OR DIE !!!!!!

Oh and why does any pic that i try and post come out upside down. That's the real question here hahaha..

Perhaps 190-195@8% is a more reasonable goal? I mean at this stage in the game, to lose 16% bf AND gain 10lbs in muscle - well, thats a hell of a feat even for the most dedicated & gifted guys in their prime. Just post the pic and one of us mods can fix it no biggy.

[Glycomann]

Yes stats would be important. I am5 11" and weigh 210 pounds with a disgusting 24% body fat.thats my point. Now matter how much I watch the diet I can't see getting the results I am looking for. What kind of results you ask? 220 with 8. To 10% body fat. I train five days a week with lots of intensity. I keep my reps around six to eight using as much weight as possible without a spotter. I want that 220 man. I'll do whatever it takes but I have to be realistic about it. I can't expect to get there by consuming six hundred grams of protein a day. Not happening. TEST OR DIE !!!!!!

Oh and why does any pic that i try and post come out upside down. That's the real question here hahaha..

You probably have metabolic syndrome. high protein low carb diet is part of the solution. I would guess 250-300 grams protein a day and carbs 100-200 g/d 5 days a week. the other 2 days a little higher to prevent stalling. Fat to make up cals difference. Androgens help pull nutrients into muscle tissue, especially triglycerides (from fat) so that will help too. 250 grams of protein is about 2 lbs of lean meat a day or lb and 1/2 and a big shake. CArbs should not come from wheat or corn based products. Rice is the base with some sweet potato and veggies.

[Number-LL]

The 20-Year Public Health Impact and Direct Cost of Testosterone Deficiency in U.S. Men
ABSTRACT | Introduction. Testosterone deficiency (TD) imposes a substantial public health burden in the U.S. We modeled the costs associated with TD-related sequelae including cardiovascular disease (CVD), diabetes mellitus (DM), and osteoporosis-related fractures (ORFs).

Aim. To quantify the incremental cost burden imposed by TD's cardiometabolic sequelae.

Method. Incidence, prevalence, and mortality of these conditions were collected for men ages 45–74 from six national databases and large cross-sectional studies. Relative risk (RR) rates were determined for these sequelae in patients with T < 300 ng/dL. The prevalence of TD was determined for this cohort of men.

Main Outcome Measures. Adjusted incidence and prevalence were determined. Annual costs for the three TD-related sequelae were inflated at a real rate of 3% for 20 years.

Results. Actual and adjusted (normalized for T deficiency) rates of CVD, DM, and ORFs in U.S. men aged 45–74 assuming a TD prevalence of 13.4% were calculated. We determined that, over a 20-year period, T deficiency is projected to be involved in the development of approximately 1.3 million new cases of CVD, 1.1 million new cases of DM, and over 600,000 ORFs. In year 1, the attributed cost burden of these diseases was approximately $8.4 billion. Over the entire 20-year period, T deficiency may be directly responsible for approximately $190–$525 billion in inflation-adjusted U.S. health care expenditures.

Conclusion. TD may be a significant contributor to adverse public health. Further study is needed to definitively describe the whether TD is a modifiable risk factor for CVD, DM, and ORFs. This may represent an opportunity for nationwide public health initiatives aimed at preventive care. Moskovic DJ, Araujo AB, Lipshultz LI, and Khera M. The 20-year public health impact and direct cost of testosterone deficiency in U.S. men. J Sex Med **;**:**–**.

The Journal of Sexual Medicine
Volume 10, Issue 2, pages 562–569, February 2013

Daniel J. Moskovic MD, MA, MBA1,2,*, Andre B. Araujo PhD3, Larry I. Lipshultz MD1, Mohit Khera MD, MBA, MPH1,*
Article first published online: 4 OCT 2012

DOI: 10.1111/j.1743-6109.2012.02944.x

© 2012 International Society for Sexual Medicine

[Glycomann]

^^ great find

[Shovel]

Is this really that much of a debate. Juice or don't. 100 or 1000, it's not that difficult.

[Glycomann]

Holy crap, 856 views!

[Darkness]

Yea G this is a great thread. Probably should be published after we clean my opinions out of it

[jboldman]

most of the full studies that i have read on test report the results over a wide range of variability, that is the results do not cluster around the mean but are more spread out. what does this mean, in this case, as some have pointed out, for some older men 500mg test/week may have adverse effects, for others it is just a warmup. generalisms are alway fraught with peril, not all conclusions apply to all men. perhaps i should preface this with some stats of my own, i am well past 65yo, currently at 215, bf% unfortuantely around 16%. to get ripped i really need to watch my diet , workouts, and supps and get down to ~195. period! at my age muscle mass is only test dose proportionate to a point, i really can not add any more muscle to my frame and still maintain a reasonable bf%. I routinely take 500-600mg/wk with NO ill effects. Been doing this for many years.My blood work is monitored by multiple docs including my crit, yes it is high but well within the normal range. Do's: test always, adding in deca once in a while and tren when i am on the lower end of bf% and really want the shredded look. Dont's: no orals! Ever! saying that everyone can do low dose orals forever is as bad as saying all older men can do 500mg test/week forever. I have to say that my observations demonstrate more negative results from orals than from test. as is always ( is this a generalization?) the case, the truth lies somewhere in the middle and 500mg test /week for 60plus guys may not always be the smartest thing to do, i really have not met that many guys that age that do that dose. The few I know that are on forever and take test doses in that range have reported no ill effects.

So, in this case my primary recommendation would be to work on the bodyfat % and bring it down significantly before setting out on high dose test. you might have a great workout ethic but it sounds like your diet ethic sucks. for me, i would add in 200-300mg test per week to keep catabolism in check, add lots of pre/post BCAAs for the same reason. ALso the addition of the test will significantly aid you in the mind game necessary to maintain a stricter diet and continue to work out hard. although some can continue to lift the same heavy weights they did in their younger years, the aging male frequently suffers from joint deterioration and age related disk degenerative disease through no fault of their own and recovery from injuries can be a deal breaker. Use care when deciding max lifts with an eye to injury prevention, particularly when dieting.

hey Deacon my friend! just as warm and fuzzy as always huh?! Test and Tren! The king of combos!

jb

[Glycomann]

most of the full studies that i have read on test report the results over a wide range of variability, that is the results do not cluster around the mean but are more spread out. what does this mean, in this case, as some have pointed out, for some older men 500mg test/week may have adverse effects, for others it is just a warmup. generalisms are alway fraught with peril, not all conclusions apply to all men. perhaps i should preface this with some stats of my own, i am well past 65yo, currently at 215, bf% unfortuantely around 16%. to get ripped i really need to watch my diet , workouts, and supps and get down to ~195. period! at my age muscle mass is only test dose proportionate to a point, i really can not add any more muscle to my frame and still maintain a reasonable bf%. I routinely take 500-600mg/wk with NO ill effects. Been doing this for many years.My blood work is monitored by multiple docs including my crit, yes it is high but well within the normal range. Do's: test always, adding in deca once in a while and tren when i am on the lower end of bf% and really want the shredded look. Dont's: no orals! Ever! saying that everyone can do low dose orals forever is as bad as saying all older men can do 500mg test/week forever. I have to say that my observations demonstrate more negative results from orals than from test. as is always ( is this a generalization?) the case, the truth lies somewhere in the middle and 500mg test /week for 60plus guys may not always be the smartest thing to do, i really have not met that many guys that age that do that dose. The few I know that are on forever and take test doses in that range have reported no ill effects.

So, in this case my primary recommendation would be to work on the bodyfat % and bring it down significantly before setting out on high dose test. you might have a great workout ethic but it sounds like your diet ethic sucks. for me, i would add in 200-300mg test per week to keep catabolism in check, add lots of pre/post BCAAs for the same reason. ALso the addition of the test will significantly aid you in the mind game necessary to maintain a stricter diet and continue to work out hard. although some can continue to lift the same heavy weights they did in their younger years, the aging male frequently suffers from joint deterioration and age related disk degenerative disease through no fault of their own and recovery from injuries can be a deal breaker. Use care when deciding max lifts with an eye to injury prevention, particularly when dieting.

hey Deacon my friend! just as warm and fuzzy as always huh?! Test and Tren! The king of combos!

jb

I would add here for the aging male that it is always a good idea to be monitored by a qualified physician. Erythrocytosis and polycythemia are dose related and are a concern even in the replacement dose range and the risk increases with dose. i have two personal friends in their mid to late 50s where this has been a problem. I also know a number on the boards where this has been a problem.

Aside from the precautions I think TRT (and maybe a little more), proper diet, exercise and proper monitoring is a good combination for the aging male to live a more healthy and productive life in his later years.

[Glycomann]

Yea G this is a great thread. Probably should be published after we clean my opinions out of it

i wouldn't object to that.

[jboldman]

YEs! Absolutely, frequent blood tests are a must, both during and before. it is essential that you establish a baseline.

jb

I would add here for the aging male that it is always a good idea to be monitored by a qualified physician. Erythrocytosis and polycythemia are dose related and are a concern even in the replacement dose range and the risk increases with dose. i have two personal friends in their mid to late 50s where this has been a problem. I also know a number on the boards where this has been a problem.

Aside from the precautions I think TRT (and maybe a little more), proper diet, exercise and proper monitoring is a good combination for the aging male to live a more healthy and productive life in his later years.

[Number-LL]

[QUOTE=......I also know a number on the boards where this has been a problem.


...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Number-LL.

[John Benz]

Great thread full of great information. It would be nice to pare this thread down...delete all derogatory and chat posts and sticky it! Incredible amount of insights for the aging male in here!