PCT or Natural recovery ? ? ? ? ?

[John Benz]

I wouldnt do it - deca dick is gonna strike - I dont care what some "pro" tells you - havent you ever heard Lee Priest when he says how some pro's give out shit information just to fuck with people? Running that much deca and so little test is foolish beyond reason - and bottom line is test is the king of the mass builders and so running any cycle without a serious dose of it is just playing around

go ahead and run that cycle but it's not an educated decision bro and I dont mean to be a smart ass - you are just asking for problems and I would hate to see that occur

thanks for the info but i disagree ,deca is a way better mass builder than test ...as deca is way more anaboolic..

Listen to Deacon....he's been in this game for a long time. Test is the king of mass builders for one simple reason...you can retain more of the mass you acquire. Much of the mass from Deca is from water retention (as synovial fluid) which is also why it is easy on the joints, but VERY little of the mass gained from Deca is retained. I prefer EQ to Deca as it provides keepable gains as well. Greater appetite due to increased red blood cell production is one of the nice features with high dose EQ. Also, EQ doesn't shut you down so hard. Test, IMO should be the base for every cycle and is the most anabolic hormone except insulin, which is too risky for the average board member to be experimenting with. And no, the mods here are NOT average board members. OLYMPIAN is close to IFBB pro caliber. BTW, Doggcrapp, the most celebrated personal trainer on the boards flatly states that if you can't see an increase in size, even as an advanced lifter, from a gram of test then there is something wrong in your diet or training.

I don't believe in using Nolva or Clomid unless there are needed and the only time they are absolutely mandatory is running Winnie or Deca. Even Tren doesn't shut me down that hard.

[rippedfreak]

I prefer EQ to Deca as it provides keepable gains as well. Greater appetite due to increased red blood cell production is one of the nice features with high dose EQ. Also, EQ doesn't shut you down so hard.

my point exactly

[test-beast]

might go with npp then...

[RJH8541]

thanks for the info but i disagree ,deca is a way better mass builder than test ...as deca is way more anaboolic..

ok, finally something we agree on.

I have run my last few cycles with higher anabolics and less androgens. and seen much better lean mass gains than the reverse. Actually my last cycle I used high androgens in the beginning of the cycle and slowly reversed it, ending my cycle with high anabolics. This was my best cycle ever by far.

As for AIs only hindering water gains, you're right. sort of. But we all know that having a bit of water makes you lift stronger, joints feel better, and the gains come easier IMO.

Scotsmark - I am on Cypionate for HRT.

[RJH8541]

Listen to Deacon....he's been in this game for a long time. Test is the king of mass builders for one simple reason...you can retain more of the mass you acquire. Much of the mass from Deca is from water retention (as synovial fluid) which is also why it is easy on the joints, but VERY little of the mass gained from Deca is retained. I prefer EQ to Deca as it provides keepable gains as well. Greater appetite due to increased red blood cell production is one of the nice features with high dose EQ. Also, EQ doesn't shut you down so hard. Test, IMO should be the base for every cycle and is the most anabolic hormone except insulin, which is too risky for the average board member to be experimenting with. And no, the mods here are NOT average board members. OLYMPIAN is close to IFBB pro caliber. BTW, Doggcrapp, the most celebrated personal trainer on the boards flatly states that if you can't see an increase in size, even as an advanced lifter, from a gram of test then there is something wrong in your diet or training.

I don't believe in using Nolva or Clomid unless there are needed and the only time they are absolutely mandatory is running Winnie or Deca. Even Tren doesn't shut me down that hard.

Damn Oly, IFBB pro caliber? On the way up huh?

I think this is one of those threads that we'll have to agree to disagree on. Test is defintely NOT the most anabolic to me at all. . IN the case of anabolism, its DECA baby. And I really don't retain any water on deca more than test. Water retention is a byproduct of a shitty diet/lack of water. Its all what works best for me. And I have tried all of them, in all different configurations.

DC stating his opinion about what you posted is more of a statement about proper training and diet, and is irrelevant when referring to anabolism in this conversation. Celebrated or not, he ain't right about everything either.

The biggest problem I have on the boards, which I have said a million times, is that the 'test is best for everything' theory, although great to some, is just the same old regurgatated shit said over and over again. What works for one doesn't always work for all. That is not a jab at you John Benz, mainly talking about the newbies.

I don't agree with alot of what test-beast says, but he knows his body best. If he mistakes, hopefully he changes things and learns his lesson. Sometimes our opinions come across as preachy gospel (even mine) and don't allow for any outside influence.

Sorry for tangent.

OLY is gay.

[OLYMPIAN]

dont be hatin, u Baldfucker..


Thanks Benz for but i'm no way near Pro Caliber,bro..but i do appreciate the comment.

[test-beast]

by the way this is a great thread

[Ms.Wetback]

by the way this is a great thread

Thank you .............

[RJH8541]

dont be hatin, u Baldfucker..


.

Oh, I'm not. If we could swap some body parts, we WOULD be pro caliber!!!

[Deacon]

Damn Oly, IFBB pro caliber? On the way up huh?

I think this is one of those threads that we'll have to agree to disagree on. Test is defintely NOT the most anabolic to me at all. . IN the case of anabolism, its DECA baby. And I really don't retain any water on deca more than test. Water retention is a byproduct of a shitty diet/lack of water. Its all what works best for me. And I have tried all of them, in all different configurations.

DC stating his opinion about what you posted is more of a statement about proper training and diet, and is irrelevant when referring to anabolism in this conversation. Celebrated or not, he ain't right about everything either.

The biggest problem I have on the boards, which I have said a million times, is that the 'test is best for everything' theory, although great to some, is just the same old regurgatated shit said over and over again. What works for one doesn't always work for all. That is not a jab at you John Benz, mainly talking about the newbies.

I don't agree with alot of what test-beast says, but he knows his body best. If he mistakes, hopefully he changes things and learns his lesson. Sometimes our opinions come across as preachy gospel (even mine) and don't allow for any outside influence.

Sorry for tangent.

OLY is gay.

yes he does know his body best - BUT running that dose of deca with such a lose dose of test is just asking for trouble - and that is not regurgitated information
I do hope that he does not have those problems - but almost every guy who has done something like this over the years has regretted it

[makaveli25]

the best that i ever recovered from a cycle was with no hcg no nolva just clomid!! i used 50mg of clomid ed and a couple of weeks i was still holding unto all of my size.. i should of just left the juice alone after that.. i had made great gains and kept them all... six months later i started another cycle haha.. i think the more chems i run the more it confuses my body and the shitier i feel.. the best pct i think it clomid some igf-1 and a natty test booster

[RJH8541]

yes he does know his body best - BUT running that dose of deca with such a lose dose of test is just asking for trouble - and that is not regurgitated information
I do hope that he does not have those problems - but almost every guy who has done something like this over the years has regretted it

I knew regurgitated would get misunderstood. lol

Deacon, what I am saying is, it may not be asking for trouble with everyone. I know plenty of guys who swear by Deca, and only deca in some cycles, and come out fine, with a ton of lean mass. And when i say a ton, I mean 5-10 LBM, not the 25030lbs of fat/water/muscle mix people think is LBM when they do a bunch of test.

Like I said, to each his own. I always use test, but the last few times my anabolics have been higher than the andros, especially at the end. Much better cycles FOR ME! Not for everyone, just me.

[Xframe]

Damn Oly, IFBB pro caliber? On the way up huh?

I think this is one of those threads that we'll have to agree to disagree on. Test is defintely NOT the most anabolic to me at all. . IN the case of anabolism, its DECA baby. And I really don't retain any water on deca more than test. Water retention is a byproduct of a shitty diet/lack of water. Its all what works best for me. And I have tried all of them, in all different configurations.

DC stating his opinion about what you posted is more of a statement about proper training and diet, and is irrelevant when referring to anabolism in this conversation. Celebrated or not, he ain't right about everything either.

The biggest problem I have on the boards, which I have said a million times, is that the 'test is best for everything' theory, although great to some, is just the same old regurgatated shit said over and over again. What works for one doesn't always work for all. That is not a jab at you John Benz, mainly talking about the newbies.

I don't agree with alot of what test-beast says, but he knows his body best. If he mistakes, hopefully he changes things and learns his lesson. Sometimes our opinions come across as preachy gospel (even mine) and don't allow for any outside influence.

Sorry for tangent.

OLY is gay.

Finally a response I didnt roll my eyes at after reading it. Well put.

[mrhtbd]

I've tried clomid, HCG, nolva and others for PCT but the main ingredient is time.
Most people don't have any patience.

[-JP-]

Its a shame there is not more research and scienctific evidence on the matter... I for one would not feel comfortable not taking PCT I guess I go by the philosphy rather be safer then sorry