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Old 05-13-2017, 10:23 AM   #1
Acneman
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Acnemans PCT, with references

Acnemans PCT
ok this is not some guys opinion. i have research that shows these things work. and without further ado i give you.........

Acnemans PCT

What is PCT?

Post cycle therapy (PCT) is the process of and plan for the recovery of HPTA .(Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Testes-Axis) and gonadal Function for production of normal amounts of endogenous testosterone. This is typically done at the end of a cycle of application of exogenous androgenic compounds.

The use of steroids, and some few other compounds, can and does cause the suppression of HPTA and the result is hypogonadism or low to no natural testosterone production.

I can go on and talk like this for hours. Lets simplify. When you take steroids you grow but when you stop you cant get it up and you lose all your gains because your nuts donít work. Ok?

So what do we do about it? For decades we have been experimenting with different compounds to kick start our natural production of testosterone and prevent the negative effects of hypogonadism following a cycle.

History and the evolution of PCT compounds

When I first started our only tools were Human Chorionic Gonadotropin, HCG, and tapering off of the compounds. HCG acts like Luteinizing hormone stimulating Leydig Cells to produce testosterone. HCG stimulates the testes to function fully even after being suppressed and atrophying during a cycle. (http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supp...n/drg-20062846 ) The problem is that HCG can be suppressive to HPTA and can delay recovery if not used correctly and you can only get so much from tapering. I remember taking a quarter cc of test a week at the end of a cycle, crazy right?.

Now we have other compounds added to the arsenal. In the 90ís we started using Clomid and Nolvadex after cycles. These are called SERMís or Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators. SERMís block the effects of Estrogen by competing for Estrogen receptors in tissue. Since SERMís actually attach to Estrogen receptors better than Estrogen they effectively block Estrogen from effecting the body. Since the presence of and levels of Estrogen in the body has a profound effect on natural production of Testosterone this is critical to recovery. Some people still recommend Clomid only for PCT.

Some time later we added Aromatase inhibitors to the mix. Aromatase inhibitors (AIs) are a class of drugs used in the treatment gynecomastia in men reducing the conversion of Testosterone to Estrogen. Given how important Estrogen levels are to the production of endogenous Testosterone you can see how this can be an effective tool in PCT.

The most recent addition to the mix are SARMís and Phosphodiesterase type-5 inhibitor (PDE5i) specifically Tadalafil . I will not be discussing SARMís at this time but I believe they are a crucial part of the future of the modern PCT plan.

The modern PCT with citations
Now lets talk HCG. HCG is an incredible drug that can eliminate the temporary suppression of testosterone production caused by exogenous androgens and can restore physical size and function of the testes. HCG can be used to recover from steroid induced Hypogonadism all by itself. So why are so many people against it? Because it is being used wrong. Yes HCG can in its function cause your HPTA to be suppressed. So you can have large full testes that when you stop using HCG they stop producing testosterone. But if you donít use it you will come into pct with shriveled non-functioning testes. This will delay recovery. While careful and proper use of HCG by itself can lead to recovery (http://am2016.aace.com/presentations...tive%20age.pdf) it is not ideal for recovery by itself. Donít worry I have the solution. You use the HCG before the steroid esters that originally suppressed your endogenous testosterone production clear your system. ExampleÖ you can use small doses throughout your cycle keeping your boys in good shape or use slightly larger doses closer to the end of your cycle. Just discontinue use so that this fast acting and metabolized drug clears about the same time your steroid esters clear. Look for a steroid ester calculator to predict when to discontinue HCG and begin the second phase of PCT. If you continue the use of HCG after clearance of esters and into PCT your doses must be small and seldom but if you time everything right you dont need to use it past the beginning of your PCT proper.

The second phase of PCT is basically standard treatment of hypogonadism. Control of estrogen is a key as well as production of testosterone. Since you have used HCG to kick start your gonads you now have to prevent the shut down of your testes by repairing the HPTA. A SERM is the next weapon in our arsenal. While Clomid is the most researched and recommended Nolvadex can be substituted. (http://am2016.aace.com/presentations...tive%20age.pdf). HCG and SERMís (both Clomid and Nolvadex) have been specifically studied in treatment of Hypogonadism caused by anabolic steroid use.(http://www.fertstert.org/article/S00...140-X/fulltext) Therapeutic dosages of Clomid for PCT can range from as little as 25mg every other day to 50mg per day. Some internet recommendations go as high as 150mg per day but this is not recommended due to side effects. In other words this dosage could have you crying about that gold fish that died when you were 12 and becoming blind faster than a 16 year old with unlimited internet access and a private spot. The higher dosages are for two schools of thought. Some believe you can reduce the time before Clomid gets to therapeutic blood levels (think front load) and some just feel that more is better(think ďif 3 beers make me feel good 12 beers will make me feel awesome!!). What I recommend is start your SERM early and use it for longer. This brings your blood serum levels up before you begin to get symptoms of low test and make sure you are recovered before discontinuing use. SERMís are not a felony to have or receive so stock up. Start your SERMís before your anabolic esteyrs clear and continue your dosages beyond one month. Never use more than 50mg of clomid per day. If you feel this is not enough you can add Nolvadex at 20mg per day. Depending on other hepatoxic drugs you have used recently, the maximum dosage of Nolvadex is 40mg per day if this is the only SERM used and 20mg per day if used with Clomid. If you have used a lot of liver stressful orals or you already have liver issues use Clomid only. Do not use Nolvadex after any long ester nandrolone (19-nortestosterone) and bolandione (19-norandrostenedione) or Trenbolone or any of the of the 19-nortestosterone group or during the use of any of the short esters. This should be safe after 19-nortestosterone substance clears but unless you have severe problems with clomid you should not use Nolvadex in conjunction with, or as pct for, a cycle that contains any of the 19-nortestosterone group.


And so we come to my third item for PCT, Aromatase Inhibitors. AIís prevent conversion of testosterone to estrogen. This is a double whammy of preventing the destruction of the testosterone you want and prevents the creation of the excess estrogen you donít want that will shut down you natural testosterone. AIís have been shown to effectively treat Hypogonadism in men (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143915/). This is exactly what we are looking for right? Further this article shows the synergy of SERMís and AIís when used together to treat infertility in men so the use of both may actually treat hypogonadism better than one or the other ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143915/ ). Other studies show that the use of AIís have a positive effect on luteinizing hormone and ďLowering estradiol levels, by administering an aromatase inhibitor, is associated with an increase in levels of LH, follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and testosterone ď (https://rbej.biomedcentral.com/artic...1477-7827-9-93) which is not seen with SERMís. Third generations AIís are recommended and since letrozole is considered too strong by most who have used it and both Letrozole and anastrozole.(Arimidexģ) can have drug interactions with Nolvadex,(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8476783) Exemestane (Aromasinģ) is the AI to use. Further Aromasin has no negative effect on cholesterol that is seen with other AIís (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14760111). And lastly Aromasin does not have the negative effect on levels of IGF-1 that all other AIís have (https://academic.oup.com/jcem/articl...jc.2003-031279). The same study showed that there was little difference between the effects of a 25mg per day dosage and a 50mg per day dosage so 25mg per day is the recommended dosage. While some advocate for short term use of AIís during pct, like two weeks, since there have been studies of these drugs with use of years showing minimal sides my recommendations is 6 weeks of use (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2503653/). You can even use it longer but im not sure there is a need. If you want to continue you can reduce dosage to 25mg every other day or 12.5mg every day for a couple more weeks but if you have not recovered by 8 weeks of PCT I suggest you discontinue all use and see your doctor.


And the fourth addition to PCT, Phosphodiesterase type-5 inhibitor (PDE5i), specifically Tadalafil. there are multiple benefits to the addition of Tadalafil to your pct. At a dosage of 5 to 20mg per day, Tadalafil upregulates Androgen receptors, down regulates estrogen receptors, increases Testosterone, decreases estradiol levels, and decreases the aromatization of Testosterone to estrogen. so real quick, daily 20mg doses of Tadalafil increases total testosterone, up regulates Androgen receptors (these are good to increase) and reduces Estradiol, total estrogen, aromatization, and the efficacy of estrogen receptors (these are good to decrease). These are all things we want to happen during PCT and in general all the time. This, in my opinion, could be a anti aging strategy for men but is definitely a good thing for PCT. And all of this with almost no negative side effects and no participants discontinued treatment. As is typical of PCT drugs the effects diminish and cease after about 2 months of discontinuance of the Tadalafil treatment, but by then you are back to normal. but just remember these benefits seemed to last as long as you were taking the drug and some took the drug long term. (Tadalafil modulates aromatase activity and androgen receptor expression in a human osteoblastic cell in vitro model, Journal of endocrinological investigation 39(2) DOI 10.1007/s40618-015-0344-1)(Testosterone:Estradiol Ratio Changes Associated with Long-Term Tadalafil Administration: A Pilot Study, The Journal of Sexual Medicine May 2006 DOI: 10.1111/j.1743-6109.2006.00264.x)


Conclusion

And so the modern PCT will contain

1. Calculation of ester clearance for beginning of PCT. If you start too soon you could finish your PCT before recovery leading to a crash and if you start too late you can suffer hypogonadism symptoms before you begin to recover and lose gains. The calculation of ester clearance and concentration is a topic that has been covered sufficiently for years so this will not be discussed at length in this article.

2. HCG for recovery of the testes and to kick start endogenous test production. The ending of this treatment must coincide or be shortly after the clearance of the steroid esters mentioned above. The use of HCG during the beginning of PCT is only recommended for the longer versions of PCT described, like the 8 week duration PCT.

3. SERMís, the corner stone of recovery. Most recommended is Clomid but for those who are sensitive to Clomids sides, Nolvadex can be substituted, or they can both be taken together in smaller doses. A dosage of 25mg per day starting at least 2 weeks before ester clearance is recommended. Durations of 6 to 8 weeks is recommended. You can taper off the dosage in the last two weeks of an 8 week duration if you like but I donít feel it is necessary.

4. AIís have beneficial effects on LH and FSH, that SERMís do not have, that aid in recovery. There may be a synergistic effect by using both. Exemestane (Aromasinģ).is recommended as it is a third generation AI, has the least drug interactions, the most all round beneficial effects and the least side effects. A dosage of 25mg per day starting at least 2 weeks before ester clearance is recommended. Durations of 4 to 6 weeks is recommended and you can add two weeks at a reduced dosage at the end if you feel you need it.

5. Tadalafil has beneficial effects on testosterone levels an androgen receptor sensitivity. Tadalafil reduces estrogen, estradiol, reduces estrogen receptor sensitivity, and acts as a mild anti-aromatase. Recommended dosage of 10 to 20 mg per day for all of these benefits and has almost no negative Side effects and a positive side effect of a teenage style erections.

Example PCT

After a 12 week cycle of Test Enanthate and Tren Ace you calculate that your Enanthate esters will clear after 3 weeks. You stop Enanthate injections 3 weeks before PCT but can continue the Tren Ace until one week before full PCT since it is a very short acting ester. You are stopping all steroid injections just one week before full PCT or about the one week before you stop HCG shots. You then start your AI, Tadalafil and SERM. A dosage schedule and amount would look like this.

Starting the last week of short esters and no long esters.
Week 1-2 HCG 250 IU every other day.
Week 1-6 Clomid 25mg per day
week 1-6 Aromasin 25mg per day
week 7-8 Clomid 25mg every other day
week 7-8 Aromasin 12.5mg per day
week 1-12 Tadalafil 20mg per day

This utilizes a taper off of the PCT drugs during the last two weeks and the beginning of PCT before the clearance of esters to make sure of optimum blood serum levels of your compounds once all exogenous androgens are eliminated.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:59 PM   #2
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and way back in 2007 the Acneman was pimpin this pct

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Old 05-16-2017, 02:07 AM   #3
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Nice post!
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Old 05-16-2017, 09:26 PM   #4
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Very good post. I like it and learned a few things about tadalafil

I'll add it in. I don't know about 20mg a day though. Wouldn't 20mg e3d work just as well
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Old 05-20-2017, 01:27 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by A.B View Post
Very good post. I like it and learned a few things about tadalafil

I'll add it in. I don't know about 20mg a day though. Wouldn't 20mg e3d work just as well
the two studies i read were both daily dosages. however one was only 5mg per day but the effects were different
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Old 09-21-2017, 10:36 PM   #6
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Two things:

1- why is nolva bad after nandro/tren?

2- what about toremifene?
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Old 09-22-2017, 06:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by BrutalHoney View Post
Two things:

1- why is nolva bad after nandro/tren?

2- what about toremifene?
the nolva 19-nor interaction is not supported by studies due to lack of interest by the research community. PCT is not a popular subject of research. the interaction and side effects is supported by numerous anecdotal stories of a negative interaction by trusted veterans. i felt it was better safe than sorry on that. i personally have taken nolva during administration of 19-nors and pct for them with no noticeable reactions so this is like other sides and not all experience it.

toremifene is not recommended as it has no advantage over the two SERM's i recommended and has different and dangerous possible side effects that the others do not (i am not risking Vaginal discharge JK). it is not as powerful as clomid or nolvadex. the only reason to use this compound that i have found is if this is the only serm you have access to.
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