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I seen this posted on wcbb by Basskiller
Protein Requirements Refined
There is a lot of controversy on what the actual requirements are for hard training lifters. A lot of this comes from poorly conducted studies and of course “differencing opinions” that are very often based on EXTREMELY LIMITED case studies—this is usually a study of ONE, where a good lifter or coach states “this works for me” and thus this must somehow imply that since it works for him, it must work for everyone.
I will not put myself on a pedestal, and will not give out recommendations based on what works for me. But I will state that over the last 12 years of training people, and running a client base of 75-100 trainees FULL TIME, it is easy to see what works for the AVERAGE trainee. We can quote the exceptions all day. I don’t give a damn what worked for trainee XXXXX that is an anomaly. I care about what will work for the largest percent of the training populace. If you already KNOW what works for you—great, but don’t chime in saying this is BS because it is contrary to YOUR INDIVIDUAL RESULTS. If one hundred people were put on what you do how many would be successful? THAT is what matters to me as a trainer that works with a large segment of the training populace.
Before I go any further I want to make it abundantly clear that all descriptions are approximations, and there are sub-categories within the categories and INDIVIDUAL needs trump anything that anyone can say about the topic. That out of the way—here goes.
My general all around recommendation for protein needs for WEIGHT TRAINING athletes is 1.5 gram per lb of bodyweight assuming the lifter is not 20%+ bodyfat. This pisses the “I read a study” guys that think they need much less, and also is lacking for the true mass monsters, or guys that are truly going all out to be a mass monster, as most of these guys will want 2 grams per lb, as it has become standard at the highest levels of bodybuilding. Now I will attempt to refine the needs a bit, and perhaps some people will be set at ease—more likely some will accuse me of heresy.
1. Endo’s
Endo’s tend to fall into two types of categories. The ones that truly do eat a lot and end up looking like it. The other type are the ones that have…..well……truly horrible metabolisms. They look at food and it gets them fat. Some people lump these types in the first category and just assume they really just overeat, but I know they exist as I have known a couple personally. One that I lived with for a couple of years. We could not believe how little he ate and how damn big he was.
A commonality of both types of endo’s is that their digestive tract is EXTREMELY efficient at absorbing the maximal amount of nutrients from a given serving of food. Lots of these guys do truly fine at 1.25 per LEAN lb of bodyfat, some as low as 1 gram. These guys will tell everyone that they are wasting their time with large protein servings because THEY don’t need them. They are also usually pretty hefty, so they don’t always get listened to because some people can’t tell how much mass they are holding under the bodyfat.
2. Mesomorphs
These are the guys that need to start at 1.5 grams per lb and if maximal mass is in their sights, are the ones that may need 2 grams per lb to keep adding mass. They are likely to accrue mass at a rate much faster than endo’s and ecto’s and keeping them at 1 gram per lb because of some damn study is just holding them back. IF…..and I mean IF they are one of the lucky guys that happen to be extremely carb tolerant they can often do well with less. When you see stories on the magazines or posts of forums where the (usually a freak) talks about his extremely high carb ratio’s and his low protein, this is what you are looking at, a guy with freakshow genetics. Try and emulate him if you want. If you don’t share his genetics you are on your way to slow growth unless you want to count your ever expanding mid-section.
3. Ectomorphs
This is a mixed bunch. Ecto’s are most likely to be hardgainers, so they are not likely to be adding mass at anywhere near the rate that a meso, or even an endo will. But they usually have fast running, inefficient metabolisms that tend to burn off calories as fast as it is shoved in—at least while they are still young. Dumping in huge quanties of protein is not needed for a trainee that is growing S-L-O-W-L-Y. But….on the other hand, many ecto’s do have decent growth potential and not fueling the potential growth is a pretty dumb idea IMO. The other type of ecto is one that is just so ifficient at burning everything pushed down the pie-hole, they need a LOT of food and a LOT of protein to make things work.
Both these classes do best at about 1.5 grams per lb, but a brandnewbie ecto, may do OK with about a gram for awhile as long as the rest of the caloric needs are met. THAT is a big problem though, because Joe ecto starts training, eating a typical not so good diet, a gram or even less per lb, and makes at least some decent gains at first. Then when progress stalls, what has really stalled is his diet, and since a gram worked before, and some lame ass studies say that is all he needs, he never steps up to the dinner plate and gains come to a screeching halt.
The not usually considered or discussed protein use
This is a topic most of the unknowing totally miss, or just don’t understand enough about to get even when it is suggested. Protein is THE most versatile macro nutrient. It can be used for protein synthesis (it’s main purpose) converted into glucose for fuel via gluco-genesis, or stored as fat under extreme circumstances.
Here is the rub. For every gram of protein the body consumes it senses the gram, but after it is assimilated about ¾ of the caloric content is used in the digestive and enzymatic process. Fats and carbs are MUCH more efficient. Put in a gram, you get almost a gram out. That taken into account, you have a guy that NEEDS calories to grow, but isn’t very carb tolerant. Substitute more protein (and fats in many cases) for the carbs and he stays leaner while growing muscle. Many of the cheap bastards out there are calling foul right now stating that it is wasteful to eat expensive protein instead of cheap carbs to make up for the caloric needs. All I can say is these are usually fat cheap bastards. Protein is the caloric source LEAST likely to get you fat while providing calories and amino acids needed for growth.
If you want to go with the study of 20 untrained college students Vs what all the real world strength coaches and large bodybuilders will tell you—my condolences.
Iron Addict
Protein Requirements Refined
There is a lot of controversy on what the actual requirements are for hard training lifters. A lot of this comes from poorly conducted studies and of course “differencing opinions” that are very often based on EXTREMELY LIMITED case studies—this is usually a study of ONE, where a good lifter or coach states “this works for me” and thus this must somehow imply that since it works for him, it must work for everyone.
I will not put myself on a pedestal, and will not give out recommendations based on what works for me. But I will state that over the last 12 years of training people, and running a client base of 75-100 trainees FULL TIME, it is easy to see what works for the AVERAGE trainee. We can quote the exceptions all day. I don’t give a damn what worked for trainee XXXXX that is an anomaly. I care about what will work for the largest percent of the training populace. If you already KNOW what works for you—great, but don’t chime in saying this is BS because it is contrary to YOUR INDIVIDUAL RESULTS. If one hundred people were put on what you do how many would be successful? THAT is what matters to me as a trainer that works with a large segment of the training populace.
Before I go any further I want to make it abundantly clear that all descriptions are approximations, and there are sub-categories within the categories and INDIVIDUAL needs trump anything that anyone can say about the topic. That out of the way—here goes.
My general all around recommendation for protein needs for WEIGHT TRAINING athletes is 1.5 gram per lb of bodyweight assuming the lifter is not 20%+ bodyfat. This pisses the “I read a study” guys that think they need much less, and also is lacking for the true mass monsters, or guys that are truly going all out to be a mass monster, as most of these guys will want 2 grams per lb, as it has become standard at the highest levels of bodybuilding. Now I will attempt to refine the needs a bit, and perhaps some people will be set at ease—more likely some will accuse me of heresy.
1. Endo’s
Endo’s tend to fall into two types of categories. The ones that truly do eat a lot and end up looking like it. The other type are the ones that have…..well……truly horrible metabolisms. They look at food and it gets them fat. Some people lump these types in the first category and just assume they really just overeat, but I know they exist as I have known a couple personally. One that I lived with for a couple of years. We could not believe how little he ate and how damn big he was.
A commonality of both types of endo’s is that their digestive tract is EXTREMELY efficient at absorbing the maximal amount of nutrients from a given serving of food. Lots of these guys do truly fine at 1.25 per LEAN lb of bodyfat, some as low as 1 gram. These guys will tell everyone that they are wasting their time with large protein servings because THEY don’t need them. They are also usually pretty hefty, so they don’t always get listened to because some people can’t tell how much mass they are holding under the bodyfat.
2. Mesomorphs
These are the guys that need to start at 1.5 grams per lb and if maximal mass is in their sights, are the ones that may need 2 grams per lb to keep adding mass. They are likely to accrue mass at a rate much faster than endo’s and ecto’s and keeping them at 1 gram per lb because of some damn study is just holding them back. IF…..and I mean IF they are one of the lucky guys that happen to be extremely carb tolerant they can often do well with less. When you see stories on the magazines or posts of forums where the (usually a freak) talks about his extremely high carb ratio’s and his low protein, this is what you are looking at, a guy with freakshow genetics. Try and emulate him if you want. If you don’t share his genetics you are on your way to slow growth unless you want to count your ever expanding mid-section.
3. Ectomorphs
This is a mixed bunch. Ecto’s are most likely to be hardgainers, so they are not likely to be adding mass at anywhere near the rate that a meso, or even an endo will. But they usually have fast running, inefficient metabolisms that tend to burn off calories as fast as it is shoved in—at least while they are still young. Dumping in huge quanties of protein is not needed for a trainee that is growing S-L-O-W-L-Y. But….on the other hand, many ecto’s do have decent growth potential and not fueling the potential growth is a pretty dumb idea IMO. The other type of ecto is one that is just so ifficient at burning everything pushed down the pie-hole, they need a LOT of food and a LOT of protein to make things work.
Both these classes do best at about 1.5 grams per lb, but a brandnewbie ecto, may do OK with about a gram for awhile as long as the rest of the caloric needs are met. THAT is a big problem though, because Joe ecto starts training, eating a typical not so good diet, a gram or even less per lb, and makes at least some decent gains at first. Then when progress stalls, what has really stalled is his diet, and since a gram worked before, and some lame ass studies say that is all he needs, he never steps up to the dinner plate and gains come to a screeching halt.
The not usually considered or discussed protein use
This is a topic most of the unknowing totally miss, or just don’t understand enough about to get even when it is suggested. Protein is THE most versatile macro nutrient. It can be used for protein synthesis (it’s main purpose) converted into glucose for fuel via gluco-genesis, or stored as fat under extreme circumstances.
Here is the rub. For every gram of protein the body consumes it senses the gram, but after it is assimilated about ¾ of the caloric content is used in the digestive and enzymatic process. Fats and carbs are MUCH more efficient. Put in a gram, you get almost a gram out. That taken into account, you have a guy that NEEDS calories to grow, but isn’t very carb tolerant. Substitute more protein (and fats in many cases) for the carbs and he stays leaner while growing muscle. Many of the cheap bastards out there are calling foul right now stating that it is wasteful to eat expensive protein instead of cheap carbs to make up for the caloric needs. All I can say is these are usually fat cheap bastards. Protein is the caloric source LEAST likely to get you fat while providing calories and amino acids needed for growth.
If you want to go with the study of 20 untrained college students Vs what all the real world strength coaches and large bodybuilders will tell you—my condolences.
Iron Addict
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