Confused...please help!

[P. Bateman]

right off the bat, if your workouts last 4-5 hrs thats is your main problem.

Well hell that was informative...

Not to contradict the guru but the fact is that your body really does need complex carbohydrates for a few reasons. They are one of our main sources for energy, but they also aid in disease prevention. Fiber, which is found mainly in plants, like grains, legumes, and the skins of fruits and vegetable is one of the complex carbohydrates. It is an important element in the health of the digestive system and the diseases that are associated with it.

Carbohydrates are also needed to regulate protein and fat metabolism. With the proteins and fats, the carbohydrates help to fight infections, promote growth of body tissues such as bones and skin, and lubricate the joints.

Hey Oly, you're gonna rape me for this aren't ya.

[OLYMPIAN]

Well hell that was informative...

Not to contradict the guru but the fact is that your body really does need complex carbohydrates for a few reasons. They are one of our main sources for energy, but they also aid in disease prevention. Fiber, which is found mainly in plants, like grains, legumes, and the skins of fruits and vegetable is one of the complex carbohydrates. It is an important element in the health of the digestive system and the diseases that are associated with it.

Carbohydrates are also needed to regulate protein and fat metabolism. With the proteins and fats, the carbohydrates help to fight infections, promote growth of body tissues such as bones and skin, and lubricate the joints.

Hey Oly, you're gonna rape me for this aren't ya.

first off , when people get on Keto , they DO take a fiber supp x 2 daily..with that being said..now lets move on to your 'carbohydrates helps fight infections and all that copy and paste shit you found on the net....Since the immune system cells are made from PROTEIN AND FATS!!, the immune system will suffer on a diet that has deficient essential fatty acids. "When Dr Connelly was doing his initial research on burn patients, he found that 10,000 calories of carbs per day wouldn't stop them from withering away and dying of wasting and immune system failure. It wasn't until amino acids and essential fats where added to the IV bags (at a fraction of the calories-- 3000 cals) that these patients starting gaining weight and resisting infection" -Dave Palumbo.

Once again, i never said carbs were the enemy but they arent essential as fats and protein..copy and paste as many articles as you want ..the truth is they ( CARBS) aren't...Yes, Ive gotten ripped on 300g of carbs daily but more SHREDDED AND FASTER ( in less period of time and more energetic , without cravings ) on keto where carbs were COMPLETELY absent...and we're talking a fat loss here, this thread is about losing weight.In an offseason situation YES, carbs help spare the protein and fat for use in muscle building. Why would you want to use FAT and PROTEIN for ENERGY in an offseason scenario when you can use carbs? Plus, let's not forget that while dieting off bodyfat for a competition, the goal is to retail muscle while stripping off bodyfat. If you think you're trying to accomplish two mutual exclusive goals (growing and getting lean) when bbers try to do both, they wind up accomplishing neither.
Carbs are like gasoline in a car. They fuel the car but they have nothing to do with how big the engine is. ,,hope that anwers most of your doubts...

[P. Bateman]

"When Dr Connelly was doing his initial research on burn patients, he found that 10,000 calories of carbs per day wouldn't stop them from withering away and dying of wasting and immune system failure. It wasn't until amino acids and essential fats where added to the IV bags (at a fraction of the calories-- 3000 cals) that these patients starting gaining weight and resisting infection"

You crazy Cuban who's talking about burn victims and muscle wasting...

I will re-phrase my post. Carbohydrates may not be essential, however; for one to maintain quality of life, I believe it is important to eat a balanced diet. One that consists of amino acids, essential fats and complex carbohydrates.

I would also be concerned about suggesting a diet deficient in any macro or micro nutrient to someone who may potentially be suffering from depression or some other underlying psychological factor.

And that cars and fuel metaphor...I haven't heard that before, did you just pull that out of your ass?

Even a graduate in neuro-physiology can't contend with a million years of evolution.

But I must say, yours was an informative post, references from Dave Palumbo, answers on how one should retail muscle, though I'm still confused about that one.

[OLYMPIAN]

You crazy Cuban

Only my mom's side of the family is cuban,,I ,personally have never visited the island..so that would make me 1/2 crazy cuban

who's talking about burn victims and muscle wasting

did you forget about your carbs help with the growth of body tissues such as bones AND SKIN and fight infections bullcrap?


Carbohydrates may not be essential,

.This is what I have been trying to tell you all along..youre finally getting - accepting it

I would also be concerned about suggesting a diet deficient in any macro or micro nutrient to someone who may potentially be suffering from depression or some other underlying psychological factor.


hahahahaaa, bullshit..not happening if they cut carbs

And that cars and fuel metaphor...I haven't heard that before, did you just pull that out of your ass?

nope, i have a little bag full of kool metafors



But I must say, yours was an informative post, references from Dave Palumbo, answers on how one should retail muscle,

I quoted him on ther Dr Connellys study..however the info about carbs not being essential while protein and fats are, has been out there for years n years , it isnt Palumbos creation.. Vince Gironda, Dan duchaine believed n practiced such diets when try to CUT wayy before Dave. P..


though I'm still confused about that one


Some fools will never understand...

....

[P. Bateman]

....

You win!

[OLYMPIAN]

Lmfao!!!

[John Benz]

I made the best gains of my life staying on a diet of about 40 gms carbs daily with limted fats but unlimited protein. Typical lunch would be 1/2 cups uncooked oats, 6-8 stalks celery, 6 oz Swiss cheese and a grilled rotissiere chicken. Dinner would be 12-14 scrambled eggs smothered with cheddar or 1 1/2 lbs ground beef and 2 chopped onions. I had 17" lean arms then and maintained a 31" waist. Those days are long gone

The biggest problem I see with carbs is people just don't use common sense. If it looks fattening....it is. Skip the salad dressing, soda pop and all condiments and desert. Most people would be surprised at how fast they would lose just doing those things.

Without carbs, the liver can't manufacture glycogen and your triclycerides would get depleted, but even on a zero carb diet you only need one carb meal every 4-5 days to maintain liver function.

[John Benz]

quoted him on ther Dr Connellys study..however the info about carbs not being essential while protein and fats are, has been out there for years n years , it isnt Palumbos creation.. Vince Gironda, Dan duchaine believed n practiced such diets when try to CUT wayy before Dave. P..

Vince Gironda was the pioneer. I used to read everything he ever wrote.

[OLYMPIAN]

[/COLOR]

Without carbs, the liver can't manufacture glycogen


what?

glucose is constantly being made in the liver via gluconeogenesis



and your triclycerides would get depleted, but even on a zero carb diet you only need one carb meal every 4-5 days to maintain liver function.

People on keto have a weekly cheat meal that serves to spike insulin once a week to keep T4 to T3 conversion working, to re-load depleted glycogen, and to confuse the body as to what's going on.

.

[P. Bateman]

I just can't help myself.

You have an amazing physique Oly and obviously the discipline required for Keto dieting. The average person however will have difficulties for various reasons, especially if they are not using performance enhancing drugs.

The reasons are quite obvious. When one depletes glycogen one dehydrates. The reason for the significant drop in body weight, especially for the first week, is water loss and also muscle atrophy. With muscle atrophy comes a drop in the BMR, i.e.: slower metabolism. Once carbohydrate are introduced again the rebound effect will be drastic (not a good idea for someone with depression).

I mean lets face it, a Keto diet is the most difficult diet to stick with, it is the definite article.

And one has not made a change to a long-term healthy lifestyle, which means there is really no chance of success.

All this coupled with the fact that fat is just not healthy in mass consumption and it's a road to fuckin' disaster
.

[OLYMPIAN]

what kind of fats are we talking about? no muscle atrophy as long as you keep your HEALTHY FATS up to 1/2 g per lb of bodyweight..the main problem for most is that they follow a low or not carb diet but neglect their healthy fats intake..you gotta keep them moderate -high

do not confuse the keto diet with Atkins...and it's way easier to stick with it than rotating carbs or keeping carbs low

for a really overweight person who has to lose tons of weight keto will help him/her tremendously

[OLYMPIAN]

you remind of that kid in the gym that asks me if he could jump in and use the pull up bar while im hitting tris pushdowns and without saying a word I give him that look like ' I DARE YOU

[P. Bateman]

you remind of that kid in the gym that asks me if he could jump in and use the pull up bar while im hitting tris pushdowns and without saying a word I give him that look like ' I DARE YOU

You remind me of the guy in the gym who assumes everyone else is intimidated by him and believes no one can see through the façade to the scared little girl inside who “just wants to dance”.

[OLYMPIAN]

you figured me out

[chrissy]

Monday it is !!!!!! I'll let you all know how it goes.....thanks again Oly!!