Avoid Hushmail, Safe-mail, and Cyber-rights!

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  • Fayde
    Registered User
    • Aug 2003
    • 448

    #16
    Originally posted by Dinitro
    Gee, that seems to confirm EXACTLY what I said. It says right there that Safe-mail WILL access accounts at any time to comply with legal obligations, and they will transmit your IP address (*Granted, some smart users would use a VPN or proxy, but that only masks IP--it doesn't prevent messages from being leaked by S-M if they decide to). It's right there in the portion DRVJ pasted in, under the "Privacy" section.

    I'm trying to provide PROTECTIVE information for you guys.
    If you surf anonymously you have nothing to fear. Masked IP's are as safe as it gets.

    Yes I agree there is nothing 100% safe.

    I have said this MANY times. I am plugging no one. Get an email service run in a country with no coop with US.
    ~Pain heals, Glory is Forever!
    ~There is no try; there is only do or do not...

    Comment

    • jboldman
      VET
      • Feb 2007
      • 239

      #17
      an anonymizer would solve the ip issue but as pointed out, when push comes to shove, safe-mail will give it up just like cyber. i really like the idea of using whatever you want and encrypting sensitive emails. of course then you need the anonymizer to mask your ip. <sigh> and of ocurse you need a secure backup of information htat you do not want to lose when your provider shuts down your acct.

      does anyone know of a free "iron curtain" email provider?

      jb
      Admin CuttingEdgeMuscle.com

      Comment

      • Rajincajun
        Vet
        • May 2007
        • 383

        #18
        Originally posted by jboldman
        an anonymizer would solve the ip issue but as pointed out, when push comes to shove, safe-mail will give it up just like cyber. i really like the idea of using whatever you want and encrypting sensitive emails. of course then you need the anonymizer to mask your ip. <sigh> and of ocurse you need a secure backup of information htat you do not want to lose when your provider shuts down your acct.

        does anyone know of a free "iron curtain" email provider?

        jb
        \


        +1 When the Feds Bring you to court and you have to pay all the large lawyer fees I bet my House they would roll like a dog..
        48? It's only the beginning.
        In life I fail and fail again, that's why I succeed..

        Comment

        • young guns
          VET
          • Jan 2008
          • 57

          #19
          has anyone tried anonymousspeech?

          Comment

          • Jester
            VET
            • May 2004
            • 650

            #20
            yes... it's a paid service hosted out of Japan... I think

            Comment

            • mnm
              Registered User
              • Jan 2008
              • 77

              #21
              The great thing about using an anonymous proxy or an SSH Client, is that most severs used for this type of "tunneling" don't keep logs for more than 12-24hrs. So in essence even if they do get a court order to get information from them, by the time they turn it over there isn't any on you..

              Again, utilizing a server outside of the country is even better, will buy you more time, *IF* they can even get to the and apply pressure.

              Comment

              • horizonchemical

                #22
                Originally posted by Fayde
                If you surf anonymously you have nothing to fear. Masked IP's are as safe as it gets.

                Yes I agree there is nothing 100% safe.

                I have said this MANY times. I am plugging no one. Get an email service run in a country with no coop with US.
                still cant hide from ISP unless you use XXXX I will state more once i get a pm bout becoming a sponsor.ok shit for the community

                look into web n walk it is a prepaid usb 3g network modem, which works at all tmobile hotspots for free, since it is not here in usa you will pay roaming fees but you will never have a static ip as long as you are using a laptop and dont pay to top up with a credit or debit in your name....how can they find you?

                vodafone has something similiar. their modems the size of a thumbdrive with a sim chip andy just buy more minutes when ready. or use a green dot card to top up. easy to get info for GD card

                oh and almost all have signed on to the MLAT treaty so will you not have any luck there, the flaw in hushmail wasnt the algorithm it was the java applet that allowed them a back door to see the password. it still cant be cracked so dont beleive all that i net jazz about how they can crack pgp, no they went in with warrant and got passswords. then did ip checks and went from there.

                hush.ai and cyber rights may give you a better chance since there servers are in anguila but they are still part of the mlat treaty. and no i dont believe they are the same owner two brothers own cyber rights. which is off the coast of the uk i think. im not too sure about hushmail but the articlle i read mentioned nothing about them being affilliated, dont quote me though

                Comment

                • horizonchemical

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Rajincajun
                  \


                  +1 When the Feds Bring you to court and you have to pay all the large lawyer fees I bet my House they would roll like a dog..
                  anonspeech wording is decceiving. a brilliant marketing ploy.

                  they state they will not cooperate iwth any le agency without court order. Well shit no one will. all they need to do is get one from japan. i guess the plus is that by law tey are allowed not to log ip's, not to sure how true this is.

                  SWIM someone who isnt me would get a fake prepaid card for an annonymous service to pay for which ever provider he chooses, use either anonymizer or steganos, go with the vpn and staganos, along with web n walk and i think as long as you dont sell in gym like a fool youll be alright, I SAID ALRIGHT NOT ARREST PROOF

                  Comment

                  • Mirrorshades
                    Registered User
                    • Sep 2010
                    • 39

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Rajincajun
                    I said it once I'll say it again "No mail is safe Period" It does not matter what you use, it is or can be monitored by LE. The servers can even be in a diffrent country.
                    With all due respect, I have to disagree. LE's ability to monitor email is quite limited, if proper precautions are taken.

                    The reason that LE was/is able to monitor Hushmail/Safe-Mail is due to two factors:

                    1) Both of these services violate one of the fundamental tenets of public key cryptography, that is, the strict separation of public and private halves of the keypair. The user should generate their own encryption keys, and under NO circumstances should the private half EVER leave their custody or control.

                    2) They kept records of the IP addresses of those who used their systems.

                    Frankly, both Hushmail/Safe-Mail not to mention other services of that ilk positively rely count on the ignorance of their users, as well as their users' preference for convenience over security. _Any_ service that generates/stores both halves of the encryption keys should be avoided like the proverbial
                    plague.

                    Originally posted by Rajincajun
                    Any mail sent SMTP is just that, Simple Mail Transfer Protocal. Even if it is encrypted it is very easly un-encrypted with simple tools.
                    Easily unencrypted with simple tools??!! With all due respect, Sir, this is errant nonsense. If what you have stated were correct, then the U.S. Secret Service would not have had to construct a massive password-cracking network. You can read about their efforts at the following URL:

                    Breaking news, live coverage, investigations, analysis, video, photos and opinions from The Washington Post. Subscribe for the latest on U.S. and international news, politics, business, technology, climate change, health and wellness, sports, science, weather, lifestyle and more.


                    Essentially what the Secret Service's Distributed Network Attack (DNA) system does is to compile dictionaries of terms gleaned from web site bookmark found on a user's machine. These dictionaries are used to attempt to decrypt the information the authorities wish to decrypt.

                    Armed with the computing power provided by DNA and a treasure trove of data about a suspect's personal life and interests collected by field agents, Secret Service computer forensics experts often can discover encryption key passwords.

                    In each case in which DNA is used, the Secret Service has plenty of "plaintext" or unencrypted data resident on the suspect's computer hard drive that can provide important clues to that person's password. When that data is fed into DNA, the system can create lists of words and phrases specific to the individual who owned the computer, lists that are used to try to crack the suspect's password. DNA can glean word lists from documents and e-mails on the suspect's PC, and can scour the suspect's Web browser cache and extract words from Web sites that the individual may have frequented.

                    "If we've got a suspect and we know from looking at his computer that he likes motorcycle Web sites, for example, we can pull words down off of those sites and create a unique dictionary of passwords of motorcycle terms," the Secret Service's Lewis said.
                    What the Secret Service, the FBI and virtually every other law enforcement agency counts on is that users are lazy and are unwilling to choose proper passwords/passphrases. Such attempts can be trivially defeated, using the right methods. One such method of choosing provably secure passphrases is Diceware.

                    If you read the above quoted Washington Post article, you can see that they claim that the Secret Service DNA network is capable of carrying out about a million cracking attempts per second, where the workload is spread over some 4,000 computers. They hoped to expand the system to 10,000 computers agency-wide, and eventually to the 100,000 computers in the Homeland Security network. For the purpose of the calculations shown below, I have assumed that the default capability of the DNA network is about 100,000 times that stated in the article.

                    In a nutshell, Diceware has two components: a 7,776 word list, and 5 dice.

                    To choose a passphrase, a user rolls the dice, and records the results, then looks-up the word related to the dice-rolls on the wordlist.

                    Example:

                    45654 plea

                    66151 666

                    34141 insect

                    16563 cilia

                    32232 haag

                    56414 tally

                    55154 spat

                    So, as you can see, we have seven words in our passphrase. Now the question remains, just how strong is it?

                    The total search space is 7776^7 = 1.71907079975e+27 combinations in total.

                    Assuming that the Secret Service's DNA network can process 100 billion passphrase attempts per second (or 100x10^9) this works out to:

                    1.71907079975x10^27 passwords / 100x10^9 passwords/second = 1.71907079975x10^16 seconds

                    1.71907079975e+16 seconds / 86,400 seconds/day = 198,966,527,749 days = 544,740,664 years.

                    It is a general rule of thumb that keys are found are searching approximately one-half of the total keyspace. That means that the time required to determine the key is now reduced to only a quarter of a billion years, instead of half-a-billion.

                    Even assuming that the DNA network (or any other similar network for that matter) were capable of carrying out operations 10,000 times faster, or 1,000 trillion (i.e. 10^18) attempts/second, this would still require 54,474 years to exhaustively search the entire space, or 27,237 years to go through half the space.

                    See: http://www.diceware.com for details.

                    So, as you can see, brute-forcing a properly-chosen Diceware passphrase is simply NOT feasible, regardless of the resources thrown at the problem.

                    If one pays attention to court (and other) records, you can see just how much a problem cryptography is posing for law enforcement. One such case was that of Sebastien Boucher. Mr. Boucher was crossing the border from Canada into the U.S. at Derby Line, Vermont. A Customs and Border Patrol agent noticed a laptop in the vehicle Boucher was travelling in. Upon inspection, the agent allegedly observed numerous images of child pornography. Mr. Boucher was arrested, and his computer seized. Some time later, another CBP agent fired-up Mr. Boucher's laptop, and found to his dismay that the drive containing the alleged child pornography was encrypted with PGP Whole Disk Encryption. Mr. Boucher refused to give the agent the passphrase to decrypt the encrypted drive partition.

                    The reason all this came to light was that Boucher claimed that to give over the passphrase would constitute self-incrimination under the 5th Amendment. The U.S. government attempted to crack Mr. Boucher's encrypted partition for the better of part of two years, without success.

                    Furthermore, within the last few months, the LulzSec faction of Anonymous released the archived mailbox contents of an IACIS member, including the archived contents of the IACIS mailing list. IACIS is the International Association of Computer Investigative Specialists.

                    Most of the members of IACIS are sworn police officers responsible for computer forensic investigations. On this list, many members poured out their frustration at encountering encrypted data they were unable to access. Many of them advised their colleagues that if a suspect chose a good enough password, that cracking open encrypted files was simply not feasible.

                    Currently, the only known attack against systems like PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) is brute-force.

                    Originally posted by Rajincajun
                    I myself have (being the work I do) got copies of mail as it moves from system to system you just have to have the right tool.
                    Indeed. That is why Phil Zimmermann, author of PGP, has been saying since the early 1990s that unencrypted email is like sending all your mail on postcards.

                    Originally posted by Rajincajun
                    You are never safe with any mail system. People think they are safe with using the internet but if people only knew how much is monitored you would fall over.
                    Email can be used safely, but it takes knowledge of how to do so, as well as the discipline to use these methods consistently.

                    As far as being surveilled goes, you're absolutely correct. While one can take steps to avoid surveillance, it would be difficult, if not impossible to escape it entirely.

                    Mirrorshades

                    Comment

                    • Mirrorshades
                      Registered User
                      • Sep 2010
                      • 39

                      #25
                      Originally posted by mnm
                      Seems they are located in Israel. Big Plus...

                      And anyone who knows a thing or two about the internet and computers can easily get their hands on a SSH VPN client. They are offered for a very small fee throughout the world. Which will allow you to conceal your true IP address.

                      (there are some free ones out there aswell)

                      That in combination with good encryption used on both ends of the communique results in a near fool-proof situation for secure exchange of information.
                      With all due respect, I couldn't disagree with you more, If push comes to shove, any VPN provider is going to roll over on you.
                      This was brought home very clearly earlier this year, when a member of Anonymous unwisely revealed the fact that he used HideMyAss, a British VPN provider. Before you know it, HideMyAss was presented with a British court order compelling them to turn over the identities of the users in question.

                      When you boil it down, a VPN is essentially an encrypted, single-hop proxy. It can't be stressed enough: VPNs are for privacy -- they are NOT for anonymity -- ideally, you want both.

                      You're far better off using Tor, and a hidden service like Tormail. Combine that with PGP encryption, and you've got a much better solution.

                      Mirrorshades

                      Comment

                      • MindlessWork
                        Moderator
                        • Aug 2011
                        • 1186

                        #26
                        What about sending messages that been encrypted before hand thru a service like hotmail? To most casual users such encrypted messages would look like a wall of gibberish. To decrypt the message usually you copy and paste it into a document then run document thru some decryption utility to view it
                        “You take the blue pill — the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill — you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.” - Morpheus (from the Matrix)

                        Comment

                        • Shovel
                          VET
                          • Jul 2011
                          • 2772

                          #27
                          Mirrorshades, you kinda make me uneasy with your knowledge... I'm not sure if that good or bad.
                          Semper Fi

                          Comment

                          • Mirrorshades
                            Registered User
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 39

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Shovel
                            Mirrorshades, you kinda make me uneasy with your knowledge... I'm not sure if that good or bad.
                            Could you elaborate a little more, please? It's kinda hard to know how to respond, when I don't know what it is. precisely, that's making you uneasy.

                            If you'd prefer, you can PM me with your concerns, instead of making it public, and I'll respond in kind.

                            Mirrorshades

                            Comment

                            • Mirrorshades
                              Registered User
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 39

                              #29
                              Originally posted by MindlessWork
                              What about sending messages that been encrypted before hand thru a service like hotmail?
                              Encrypting a message prior to it being sent and leaving your machine is almost always the best solution. Encryption alone, however, is NOT enough.

                              Being anonymous is FAR MORE IMPORTANT than using encryption. Why? consider the following 4 scenarios, ordered from worst to best outcomes.

                              Scenario #1: The authorities CAN read (decrypt) your mail and they CAN locate you

                              If the person you're writing to -- let's call him Bob -- is a cop, or has been busted and turned informer -- the fact that you've used PGP isn't going to protect you, as they will have the PGP key to decrypt your messages (if they didn't, Bob could never have read them in the first place.)

                              So, encryption provides you with NO PROTECTION WHATSOEVER in this case.

                              If they can read your email, and you are NOT anonymous, then essentially, it's game over. They will have all the details of what you've written about, and they can potentially locate you in order to carry out a raid.

                              Depending on the content of the emails, these could be used as the basis for conspiracy charges; the contents might prove sufficient to convict you of possession and perhaps even trafficking.

                              Remember, you may be very careful about your security, but there is absolutely nothing you can do about the other guys, the ones you're corresponding with. If they're sloppy about security, it also puts you at risk.

                              Scenario #2: The authorities CANNOT read (decrypt) your mail and they CAN locate you

                              Let's assume for a moment that the person you've been writing to (Bob) with is somewhat crypto-savvy; furthermore, Bob has refused to cooperate with the authorities.

                              As a result, the authorities have Bob's email, which is encrypted, and they cannot induce Bob to cooperate. Accordingly, the authorities have only two alternatives:

                              i) Assuming the authorities came into possession of Bob's PGP keyrings, they can attempt to brute-force his passphrase on his private key, enabling them to decrypt Bob's messages; or

                              ii) They can attempt to locate you to induce you to cooperate.

                              Whether option i) will succeed or not depends on whether Bob has chosen a strong passphrase. If Bob made use of Diceware, and used 8-10 Diceware words for his passphrase, then it simply cannot be brute-forced.

                              On the other hand, if Bob chose a weak passphrase, it will likely to fall to a brute-force attack. (This assumes, of course, that Bob did not make the fatal mistake of writing down his passphrase, where it could be discovered in a raid, or otherwise stored it unprotected on his computer, where it could be discovered.)

                              Remember, the authorities can be very persuasive; once someone is in custody, they usually give-in to the pressure placed upon them.

                              It's a bit like defensive driving -- it's the other guy you've gotta watch out for. As a fundamental principle, as a matter of safety, you have to assume:

                              1) That the other guy is a cop or an informant; or

                              2) If they're not a cop or informant, that they're sloppy about security.

                              If you've used Yahoo! mail, Hotmail, Gmail, or (frankly) most others, it's almost a certainty that you can be traced, as your mail provider has kept a record of your IP address.

                              Copies of the law enforcement guides for Yahoo!, Gmail and others have been leaked onto the Net -- you can learn what types of information they store, how long they store it, and even how much they charge the cops to provide it.

                              Scenario #3: They CAN read (decrypt) your mail, but they CANNOT locate you

                              This is the basic fallback position. If the authorities somehow manage to break/bypass your encryption (usually by using the methods outlined above), the only thing that will save your bacon is their inability to locate you. All the conditions in Scenario #2 can apply, except that they don't have a clue as to your real identity/location.

                              Even though you're using encryption, you simply must assume that anything you say, even in an encrypted email, will eventually come to light. Don't say anything, even in an encrypted email. that you would't mind seeing published in your local newspaper.

                              In a similar vein, be careful who you trust. Remember the old French proverb, "Three people can keep a secret only if two of them are dead."

                              If anyone is interested, I can list examples of cases where people have been undone because they trusted the wrong people.

                              Scenario #4: They CANNOT read (decrypt) your mail and they CANNOT locate you

                              This is the ideal scenario -- this is what you're hoping for.

                              If there is only one lesson you can take away from what I've said, it's that anonymity is more important than encryption -- if you cannot be identified and/or located, you cannot be raided/arrested.


                              Originally posted by MindlessWork
                              To most casual users such encrypted messages would look like a wall of gibberish.
                              Not only to casual users -- even major governments have trouble dealing with PGP-encrypted messages.

                              Originally posted by MindlessWork
                              To decrypt the message usually you copy and paste it into a document then run document thru some decryption utility to view it
                              That's pretty much how it's done.

                              Mirrorshades

                              Comment

                              • Shovel
                                VET
                                • Jul 2011
                                • 2772

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Mirrorshades
                                Could you elaborate a little more, please? It's kinda hard to know how to respond, when I don't know what it is. precisely, that's making you uneasy.

                                If you'd prefer, you can PM me with your concerns, instead of making it public, and I'll respond in kind.

                                Mirrorshades
                                Are you serious? I'm not talking about your bodybuilding knowledge...
                                It's guys like you that make me think twice about being on the Internet. No need to get offended.
                                Last edited by Shovel; 01-16-2012, 09:02 AM.
                                Semper Fi

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