JUICING AT THE AGE OF 60

[Deacon]

well Glycomann - I give advice and it is usually sound - for a while I was off the boards - when I came back I found a new "breed" of folks giving advice - you are one of them - we have sparred back and forth and quite frankly I am tired of you - the guys I advise use gear rationally get great to superior gains and suffer from few if any health problems - I do not advise cycles without test, tren alone, test with an array of orals and little else - and I do not believe in sub q injects for oils, I do not believe that as one ages he has to back off the weight he lifts, I do not post studies that discuss theraputical doses of steroids with off the wall hypothesis on how they might effect ordinary males and I do not in fact prescribe to half of the "science" shit guys post - you included

the one fact I know from experience is that scientific studies have little bearing on effects on hard training lifters - for example you like to call certain drugs "harsh" - well in my world the only time drugs are harsh is when they are taken in excess - you also like to fart around with small test doses and orals - fine go ahead - but that doesnt make you right when you tell others to and in fact where I come from guys wouldnt be caught dead messing around with 250 mg/ml of test and orals
around here we are big we are strong and we are proud of it -

you are going to be offended when you read this - I dont care
I have personally known Lifts for a long time and if he bands me for this post fine I can live with it

but it was time I told you - I think your full of shit - I think your a half assed lifter who has done half assed cycles and you can take scientific studies and wipe your ass with them

to the rest of you guys here - and you know who you are - I have known you all for a long time and love you all but I am sorry - what passes for knowledge these days makes me want to puke

take care

[Darkness]

^^ Is it really necessary to act like that just because you have a different philosophy than someone? Come on

[Glycomann]

well Glycomann - I give advice and it is usually sound - for a while I was off the boards - when I came back I found a new "breed" of folks giving advice - you are one of them - we have sparred back and forth and quite frankly I am tired of you - the guys I advise use gear rationally get great to superior gains and suffer from few if any health problems - I do not advise cycles without test, tren alone, test with an array of orals and little else - and I do not believe in sub q injects for oils, I do not believe that as one ages he has to back off the weight he lifts, I do not post studies that discuss theraputical doses of steroids with off the wall hypothesis on how they might effect ordinary males and I do not in fact prescribe to half of the "science" shit guys post - you included

the one fact I know from experience is that scientific studies have little bearing on effects on hard training lifters - for example you like to call certain drugs "harsh" - well in my world the only time drugs are harsh is when they are taken in excess - you also like to fart around with small test doses and orals - fine go ahead - but that doesnt make you right when you tell others to and in fact where I come from guys wouldnt be caught dead messing around with 250 mg/ml of test and orals
around here we are big we are strong and we are proud of it -

you are going to be offended when you read this - I dont care
I have personally known Lifts for a long time and if he bands me for this post fine I can live with it

but it was time I told you - I think your full of shit - I think your a half assed lifter who has done half assed cycles and you can take scientific studies and wipe your ass with them

to the rest of you guys here - and you know who you are - I have known you all for a long time and love you all but I am sorry - what passes for knowledge these days makes me want to puke

take care

Ask Smallguy if I'm full of shit or half ass lifter. Ask Warhorse from GH15 if I'm if I'm full of shit or half ass lifter. I've trained with them. Ask Darkness if I'm a fake or a fraud. He knows who I am in real life. I'm as real as it gets.

I'm surprised that your skin would be so thin. I never attacked you personally, only challenged your ideas. This guy is in his 60s. You threw out the idea that 500 mg a week for life is just fine. Not so. Not for all and i posted why. You dropped out of site and in the end Lifts and I agreed that monitoring would be best. Problem solved. Now the guy has an idea that at his age he should watch is ass. I like debate. I like new ideas. I like that Lifts was able to challenge one of the testing methods in one of the articles.

You shouldn't take this shit personally. I don't know what to tell you. If you go nowhere where there is debate and only hang out where everyone agrees with everything you say then how will you ever learn anything new or gain the curiosity to go further than you are right now?

If that's what you want to be then good luck.

[Deacon]

Ask Smallguy if I'm full of shit or half ass lifter. Ask Warhorse from GH15 if I'm if I'm full of shit or half ass lifter. I've trained with them. Ask Darkness if I'm a fake or a fraud. He knows who I am in real life. I'm as real as it gets.

I'm surprised that your skin would be so thin. I never attacked you personally, only challenged your ideas. This guy is in his 60s. You threw out the idea that 500 mg a week for life is just fine. Not so. Not for all and i posted why. You dropped out of site and in the end Lifts and I agreed that monitoring would be best. Problem solved. Now the guy has an idea that at his age he should watch is ass. I like debate. I like new ideas. I like that Lifts was able to challenge one of the testing methods in one of the articles.

You shouldn't take this shit personally. I don't know what to tell you. If you go nowhere where there is debate and only hang out where everyone agrees with everything you say then how will you ever learn anything new or gain the curiosity to go further than you are right now?

If that's what you want to be then good luck.

I dont need the boards for that - and you do attack me personally when you tell me to check my facts before I give advice - if 500 mgs is so rough on older guys there would be a lot of bodies and there are not so that about sums it up for your viewpoint - I am still not impressed

[Glycomann]

I dont need the boards for that - and you do attack me personally when you tell me to check my facts before I give advice - if 500 mgs is so rough on older guys there would be a lot of bodies and there are not so that about sums it up for your viewpoint - I am still not impressed

You're acting like a child.

[Deacon]

whatever works for ya

[small-guy]

well Glycomann - I give advice and it is usually sound - for a while I was off the boards - when I came back I found a new "breed" of folks giving advice - you are one of them - we have sparred back and forth and quite frankly I am tired of you - the guys I advise use gear rationally get great to superior gains and suffer from few if any health problems - I do not advise cycles without test, tren alone, test with an array of orals and little else - and I do not believe in sub q injects for oils, I do not believe that as one ages he has to back off the weight he lifts, I do not post studies that discuss theraputical doses of steroids with off the wall hypothesis on how they might effect ordinary males and I do not in fact prescribe to half of the "science" shit guys post - you included

the one fact I know from experience is that scientific studies have little bearing on effects on hard training lifters - for example you like to call certain drugs "harsh" - well in my world the only time drugs are harsh is when they are taken in excess - you also like to fart around with small test doses and orals - fine go ahead - but that doesnt make you right when you tell others to and in fact where I come from guys wouldnt be caught dead messing around with 250 mg/ml of test and orals
around here we are big we are strong and we are proud of it -

you are going to be offended when you read this - I dont care
I have personally known Lifts for a long time and if he bands me for this post fine I can live with it

but it was time I told you - I think your full of shit - I think your a half assed lifter who has done half assed cycles and you can take scientific studies and wipe your ass with them

to the rest of you guys here - and you know who you are - I have known you all for a long time and love you all but I am sorry - what passes for knowledge these days makes me want to puke

take care

Deacon.. I have nothing against you bro.. but i dont think its necessary to act like this....I was reading all the replies one by one and i came to your reply and i was in shock to see this (i have noticed its the second time u both went at it, just like me and the other guy from wcbb)... i dont think he hates u or anything, he was just giving his opinion and what he knows....Believe me, i know him well and he knows his stuff and im sure u know your stuff as well..
I agree with him, as 60 years old should not start out at 500 mg and stay on it for life.. he needs to get checked out .. im not saying its not possible.
maybe 200 mg and im sure 200 mg at 60 is more than enough..
you both need to start reading and release that temper LOL

[Dawgpound_Hank]

as 60 years old should not start out at 500 mg and stay on it for life..

Not unless he wants to be shitting out his prostate when he's 65 or so!lol

Yo Deac, lay off that 1g of tren dude!

[John Benz]

Lots of guys I respect are in heated debate here. Deacon is an icon on these boards and his experience and knowledge is beyond question.

Glycomann is one of the most intelligent people I've encountered. He's written some profound articles and given a tremendous amount of helpful advice to a lot of people here. I usually read everything he writes. That said, I don't put much stock in studies...I much prefer empiracal data.

My opinion is this...everyone is different. While one 60 year old may be able to handle 500 mg test /week, another might be far better off at 200. Since no steroid is totally benign, and the lowest effective dose is always best, why not start at 200, or even 100 and gradually increase the dose. Like bufbiker said, diet, training and rest are essential, and the test is pretty much wasted if your diet is poor.

No one has stated this yet but you will need to get yiour diet in check first. Taking winny to lose weight is not the way to go. Diet is the most important part of what we do. Your hormone intake can be minimal, your training crap, but if your diet is in check you will still see results.
Diet, weight training, cardio, and rest. The four pillars to build your house on.

This says a lot right here. "Epidemiological studies point toward an association with increased morbidity and mortality, with low testosterone states in ageing males. For example, there is a higher prevalence of depression, coronary heart disease, osteoporosis, fracture rates, frailty and even dementia with low testosterone states."

I'm a firm believer that TRT medically prescribed or self induced improves quality of live dramatically! Like I stated before monitor bp and get frequent blood work.

Landru, heed the 2 posts I quoted and start at a low dose and work your way up until you get to the level that is best for you. Remember to monitor your blood pressure and do regular blood work.

Smallguy is one of the most impressive physiques to be found on the boards, and there is no one with more damn common sense and experience about diet, training and hormones than DawgpoundHank. Listen to these guys.

[Landru]

Thanks to every one of you for your opinions. This is great board to discuss this kind of topic and I have learned a lot from reading your posts. I am planning to do some blood work then start with 200 mgs / w. and go from there . I' ll let this board know what happens.

[Deacon]

its all good

[Shovel]

I don't understand much of this but it makes me feel smart just to be reading it!

Lmao. Brainy meatheads

[beast]

I would recommend "starting" at a low dose and seeing how it makes you feel. If 200 works then holy shit, but it just might not for you. Everyone is different. I wouldn't go over 500 but hell, you might end up there. I would also recommend checking into some HGH or peptides to enhance GH levels. That is about all I would recommend as well! Good luck my brother!

[mrhtbd]

I'm surprised no-one asked for his stats.
I mean, seriously, if he weighs 155, taking 500mg/wk test may be a bit much.
On the other hand, back n the 1980's it was commonplace to start a cycle with a big dose and then taper off a few weeks before hitting it hard by week 4/5.
Anyway, what is your height and weight, sir?

By the way, I always loved winstrol and never had any of the side effects you guys mentioned. Used it as late as 3 years ago and loved it. Only took 25mg/day. Used it with a small test dosage (200mg/wk). I didn't want to get big at that time, just refine.

On another note, test dosage should depend partially on what shape he's in. Starting a too high dose of test will certainly make him feel better, make him stronger and improve recouperation, but it will also tighten him up and could potentiate stress injuries. Always felt it better to be in relatively good conditioning before going too high on test or other steriods.

I know he wrote he lifted over a long period of time, but we (50+ age men) get out of condition after just a few months at little or no activity, if that. Safety and longevity are goals worth considering.

Lastly, I am 53 and have been lifting since 1979. On and off cycles (mostly small) since 1987 and made good strides, but have to agree with Deacon on one specific point, running 200mg/test a week won't stir up too much in the mass department unless diet is overdone. Sorry, that's how I see it.

On a positive note, starting with 200mg EOW would be a consideration if the person wasn't in good shape. A month of this and regular training will help condition the muscles slowly so as not to add as much stress on the muscle/ligament, and ligament/bone tie-ins. After a month you can increase the dosage as you get stronger. Eventually settling on a dose specific to your goals and interests.

By the way, 500mg/wk is fantastic for this 230lb, 6' male, but done while out of shape only makes me fat. Just saying.

[Landru]

Yes stats would be important. I am5 11" and weigh 210 pounds with a disgusting 24% body fat.thats my point. Now matter how much I watch the diet I can't see getting the results I am looking for. What kind of results you ask? 220 with 8. To 10% body fat. I train five days a week with lots of intensity. I keep my reps around six to eight using as much weight as possible without a spotter. I want that 220 man. I'll do whatever it takes but I have to be realistic about it. I can't expect to get there by consuming six hundred grams of protein a day. Not happening. TEST OR DIE !!!!!!

Oh and why does any pic that i try and post come out upside down. That's the real question here hahaha..