opinions for cycle 4

[Emil]

So i belive it is time for the my 4 cycle . After 1 year and a half without steroids,, i decided to run one more cycle if not 2 with a good bridge betwen them. My recuperation is complete ( 6 weeks before i made all the blood tests including hormonal and everything is perfect: lipids, test , prolactin, kidneys etc). i weight arrownd 77 kg (180 pounds) bf 10% 5.9 feet tall (1.80 cm) 36years old.Cardio is on the top ( 1.5 hour run 16 km) .
I m a hard gainer, and i react well the firs 6-8 weeks on Aas. Normaly take 8-12 kg in that period and after this i hit a pleateau and gain only fat....at the end of the cycle i m 16-18% bf.
What s the plan? Like always injectible compounds only. A low test high nandrolones cycle.For the first time i want to try 2 nandrolones in 1 cycle in the same time ( tren and NNP). The lenght can be 12-18 weeks, after this PCT maybe a SARM bridge and one new cycle of 10-12 weeks. I am intersted on high quality muscle, not big, huge and fat. Less water , less fat eaven the scale will show only 10 kg more.
Any help for the design of the 4 cycle is welcome. In fact i really need your advice.(compounds dosage time,pct etc)

My AAS history:

My first cycle and PCT was :test e @ 500mgs/week for 12 weeks and run arimidex .25mgs eod till week 14 then start pct. nolva 20,20,10,10,10 (from october 2010 to december 2010)
Second Cycle
Weeks 1-16 test prop 150mg eod
Weeks 1-14 NPP 150mg eod
Weeks 1-19 arimidex .25mg e3d
Weeks 3-19 cabergaline .5mg twice a week
PCT Weeks 17-21 Clomid 50/50/50/25/25
Weeks 17-20 Nolvadex 20/20/10/10
HCG 250x2times/wk wk7-19

Cycle nr 3 was
Week 1-16 Test enanth 500mg pw (2 times x 250mg PW) pfarma grade from Balkan
Week 1-13 Tren E 200mg pw (2 times x 100mg PW) pharma grade from Balkan. Is somewere betwen Tren A and Tren E very powerfull
Week 1-13 Mast Prop 300mg pw (3 times x 100mg PW) form India Alpha Pharma
Arimidex @ .5mgs twice pw, starting from week 3,
Cabergoline/dostinex @ .5mgs twice pw starting at week 3. I have run the Caber until middle PCT . ( after 1 year i had a prolactin rise issue but resolve it naturaly
HCG 250 IU's twice pw starting from week 5 . I had stop HCG in the day i start PCT.
I start PCT two weeks after last pin of Test


PCT was Nolva 40/40/20/20/20
Clomid 100/100/50/50/50
I stop the Arimidex at start of Pct and replace with Aromasin, dosed at 12.5 mgs ED for two weeks, then reduce to every second day for two weeks, then the last week of pct run it E3D
That s my AAS life hystory.

[bufbiker]

Emil is in Romania where steroids are legal. These labs mentioned are pharmacies, not ug's. Just wanted to clear that up.
We don't mention lab names Emil, but I understand you just go to the drug store and purchase them.

[Emil]

Sorry boys, it won t happen again with the names of the companies..and you right Buff here we can buy almost anythink from drug store ..without prescription.
But also we lack in knowlege, doctors and instructed trainers.

[Emil]

The new plan:
...a short cycle of 12-14 weeks. Low test, high nandrolones..
Test prop 150 mg/week for 14 weeks
NNP 350 mg/week for 12 weeks
Tren hexa 350 mg/week for 12 weeks
HCG--only if i feal the shrink cage on my balls 2x250 iu /week.....weeks 9-14
Aromasin 12.5 e3d
PCT for 5 weeks Nolva 40/20/20/20/10
Clomid 50/50/25/25/12.5
Aromasin, dosed at 12.5 mgs ED for two weeks, then reduce to every second day for two weeks, then the last week of pct run it E3D.

Stay clean for one month after this maid a bridge with SARMS ( triple stack) and jump in cycle 5. Same goals, muscle without fat , water ...but have no ideea of the lenght, compounds etc of this 5 cycle. Any sugestion?

[bufbiker]

I'm thinking your test looks sort of low. I would go at least 100mg eod, just to keep test levels up.
Hcg in my experience spikes estrogen levels. So what if your balls shrink? They'll come back. But others may have better insight there than me. I just don't like the stuff.
Instead of sarms as a bridge why not begin test e aat about 150-200mg a week from the beginning of the cycle then stay at that dose as your bridge?
Again, others may like the Sar m bridge.

[Acneman]

I'm thinking your test looks sort of low. I would go at least 100mg eod, just to keep test levels up.
Hcg in my experience spikes estrogen levels. So what if your balls shrink? They'll come back. But others may have better insight there than me. I just don't like the stuff.
Instead of sarms as a bridge why not begin test e aat about 150-200mg a week from the beginning of the cycle then stay at that dose as your bridge?
Again, others may like the Sar m bridge.

it is my understanding that HCG spikes estrogen by aromatization as all test products do also. as long as you control the aromtization it is a great tool. as long as you use it before the esters of your test clear it does not delay recovery and in my opinion facilitates it.

as for me "bridge" is another word for "not stopping ever" i dont agree with it.

as far as a sarm bridge it depends. if you are using sarms that do not suppress hpta then fine. are there sarms that do not suppress HPTA? are there sarms that do suppress HPTA? i dont know enough about sarms. if you are using sarms that supress HPTA again you are changing off time for always on time and i do not agree with that.


at the least off time should equal on time including chemical assisted pct.

the "on forever" plan is insidious and seductive. once i extended a cycle by two months before my sister said hey buddy its time to get off that shit. remember your plan. so there you go

so in conclusion unless you are sick and produce to little test, the on for the rest of my life plan is a huge mistake in my book. actually i dont agree with any cycle that lasts longer than 4 months before pct. buts thats me. do what you want.

[Acneman]

The new plan:
...a short cycle of 12-14 weeks. Low test, high nandrolones..
Test prop 150 mg/week for 14 weeks
NNP 350 mg/week for 12 weeks
Tren hexa 350 mg/week for 12 weeks
HCG--only if i feal the shrink cage on my balls 2x250 iu /week.....weeks 9-14
Aromasin 12.5 e3d
PCT for 5 weeks Nolva 40/20/20/20/10
Clomid 50/50/25/25/12.5
Aromasin, dosed at 12.5 mgs ED for two weeks, then reduce to every second day for two weeks, then the last week of pct run it E3D.

Stay clean for one month after this maid a bridge with SARMS ( triple stack) and jump in cycle 5. Same goals, muscle without fat , water ...but have no ideea of the lenght, compounds etc of this 5 cycle. Any sugestion?

see my off time post above
staying "clean" for one month is not ever gettin clean and you would do just as well to just keep on going.

now on to the cycle

my honest opinion is... its terrible. i would never do that high a progesteron based roid dose.

and i would not do npp AND tren just one or the other.

progesterone and prolactin sides are MUCH harder to control than test/estrogen sides. aromasin will do nothing to control the progesterone and prolactin sides from 700mg of progesterone steroids.

tradition says twice the test of your nandrolones or tren to reduce sexual sides but a lot of people say thats bull.

these compounds are known to be very supressive to HPTA and will take longer to recover from.

now to the test prop... with a half life of 3 to 4 days you will be riding a roller coaster of low test to very low test. say its 3 days. you shoot 150 and 3 days later you are at 75 then a day before the next injection you are at 32 milligrams then you inject and hit somewhere around 175 total in system do you see how that works? prop tradition is multiple shots per week.

NPP same thing. to avoid a sine wave level week to week you need to break that up into multiple shots. for me npp is
best used at the end of a cycle of longer acting nandrolones to allow them to clear so deca for 8 weeks and replace with npp for last 4 weeks to allow for quicker recovery with pct.

is any of these objections making you think about basic cycle construction?

anyway my vote is no. scrap and start from scratch on that dog of a cycle. but hey do what you want. mine is just one assholes opinion

[Darkness]

Inthinkaybenhenshouldbpist his pinning schedule to clear up the ester half life issue. He might be planning on ping 3x EW which would make that part work.

[Acneman]

Inthinkaybenhenshouldbpist his pinning schedule to clear up the ester half life issue. He might be planning on ping 3x EW which would make that part work.

that would clear up the "Test prop 150 mg/week for 14 weeks" insanely low test vs other and roller coaster test availablity but would not clear up the other problems with his cycle. hey ive seen crazzier plans but if he wants honesty im his guy. upping the prop to 450mg per week would be just another dog with different fleas.

im not trying to be mean or demeaning just trying to prevent what i see as a huge mistake. at week 6 when his dick wont get hard and he has womens breast he will be thinking why didnt i listen to that old guy acneman. i am a meat and potatos guy. all the myriad crazzy cycles are for guys that are already sporting real refined musculature and looking for refinement of certain aspects of physique. any guy that is not 20lbs over his genetic potential with abs etc does not need exotic cycles. (or a guy like you and me who are ahem mature or on trt)

my recommendation for this guy is test enanthate and deca or tren for 10/12 weeks prop and npp or short ester tren for 4 weeks with HCG then pct and 5 months off before cycling again simple and effective. low sides. you want a more detailed cycle plan along those lines just ask.

if you want to go on with this plan ask about the sides when they hit. we will not say acne told you so but we will weep with you about your gyno and your girl leaving you for another guy because you cant fuck her.

hell the worse side i had from deca was inability to easily complete which my wife was fine with. she was always up for an hour or two of intimacy. she would not have been as forgiving if i could not get it up for her or asked to borrow her bra.

[bufbiker]

I love the tren/npp idea. But I do think the test is too low and as I said I would add some test cyp or e at a low dose throughout, including the bridge period.
It's only 700mg of nandrolones. I've run deca at 1500ng a week and test at 1200 a week. Just control your progesterone and estrogen, eat clean and you should have a great ride. The big key, don't over eat.

[Acneman]

I love the tren/npp idea. But I do think the test is too low and as I said I would add some test cyp or e at a low dose throughout, including the bridge period.
It's only 700mg of nandrolones. I've run deca at 1500ng a week and test at 1200 a week. Just control your progesterone and estrogen, eat clean and you should have a great ride. The big key, don't over eat.

nearly three grams of any gear per week is not for the faint of heart and not for everyone. most would say no one but a professional body builder would need that much. certainly not a 180 lb 10% body fat guy at 5'9". how old is he? whats he pushing on the bar? i dont know about you, you could be a monster but this guy is not. i can say i have heard a lot of guys who have had sides with a lot less and in his first post he said he had sides so he is probably susceptible to them. you are probably genetically resistant to progesterone sides is my guess. personally ive never had anyone else tell me they did a gram and an half a week of deca ever. wwith its long half life your levels probably sat close to 2.2 grams constant or more of deca through out the cycle.

[bufbiker]

And I stayed on for 24 weeks. Then switched to eq 1000mg a week, test e 100 mg a week with tbol the first 6 weeks of a 30+ week run. So I'm not overly concerned when an adult wants to run 700mg of nandrolones a week. It's not everyone's cup of tea but it is a great combo, the npp/tren he combo.

[andrew0409]

I'm gonna be honest, there is no reason for your body fat to jump on cycle if your diet is right. The "dirty" bulking mindset I think is outdated. Something is wrong with your diet if you are putting AAS, especially tren in your body and gaining body fat. I'd guess it depends what your goals are, I'd rather net 5kgs at the end and lose bf then just gain 10kg and gain body fat.

And I also agree with the others on the ratio of test vs other compounds. Test levels are too low.

Also, you say you run 15k? Is long distance running something you do often, if so, maybe tren would not be so good for you.

May I suggest you take a much simpler cycle that has proven to work for me time and time again. Maybe you can up the test this time if you truly want to gain more lean mass.

500-1g of test ew. I think 750mg is appropriate but i'd rather you throw in a gram of test then add deca and tren at the same time at a low dose of test.

And here's my favorite oral if used right.
Anavar, it's normally seen as a weak compound, but when I run it at 100mg ed. It's one of the best. I see nice lean gains in and it just makes me look really good. var at a 100mg ed is just magic. I ran it at 100mg ed for 12 weeks with blood works with no problem. But of course you should be careful and check. I had worst results with dbol at like 30mg ed by the end of the 4 weeks then var at 100mg ed for 12 weeks.

[Emil]

Ok thanks for the replays.. and let s clear the problem..
The plan is to inject eod--50mg test p, 100 mg tren hexa, 100 mg NNP. That s a total over 175 mg/pw of test prop.
Second.. in the last 2 cycles i use NNP (cycle 2 --350 pw) and Tren hexa (cycle 3-- near 400pw) I don t get erectile disfunction, in fact i was like a porn star...my wyfe wan t to hire another women for me if i was continue with such a huge libido. i must admit that caber was there. So.. no sexual problems until now...maybe a little decrase of libido and quality of the erection on the last 2 weeks of cycle 3.
Now, curios, after 3 cycles and one year and a half without AAS my blood test look great, much better than before using AAS... my test levels are on the roof, the estrogen is at the low range, the prolactin the same, and LH is ok.
The reason i chose to run the test at 175 mg/pw is because the less sides...no blood presure no acnee etc..i read alot about low test high nandrolones...and i also made an experiment last cycle...i tappere down the test from 500mg/pw to 175-200 mg/pw and it look fine to me. So why i should not try this time?
About tren and NNP on the same cycle...i now the old school says 2 nandrolones in 1 cycle is pure searching for trouble..( high prolactin etc). Also that NNP is a bulker and tren is a cutting bulker. But the combo is very appealing for me...Some gains, some cutting..very appeling and a little dangerous. But hell i run the tren hexa for 14 weeks with no sides last time..
I don t run everyday 15km...i just say that i can run 15 km if i want( ok maybe i do this once a week).. In fact i do more HIIT cardio..and i now tren will distroy that cardio capacity.
Why i do it? I have 36 years old, i don t compete but i want to be better..and better..and i need that muscle mass.. i go hunting, i drive a lot, i use supersport bikes, i sky... and let me tell you..after all cycles i become more strong in every sport or job

[andrew0409]

You will get more sides like acne from tren then test. There are no bulking and cutting aas, sure if i'm looking to cut fat I would probably not run dbol but actually, at the end it doesn't even matter. People say you can't cut on dbol, but in reality, dbol will prevent muscle loss while you lose body fat and maintain strength. So maybe you gain some water weight during the cycle but you still lose body fat and maintain muscle at the end.

I think what people are saying is, until you get to 10+ cycles, I would keep it simple. You can certainly run tren and deca, but imo you are better off running just test at a higher dosage then low test with tren and deca.