Question about HCG and Test

[liftsiron]

Yes agreed, but your effecting the system of their production so eventually the ones that mature will be less in number and quality, its just a matter of time if you stay on aas

This is what I was trying to say explained much better by Dave Pulumbo.


Q: Hi Dave, Is there a cycle you could go on if you still wanted to remain fertile while trying get you Mrs pregnant? Anything with test will make you infertile for a while correct?

A: Most anabolic steroid cycles will result in testosterone suppression which invariably suppresses sperm production (the sertoli cells found in the testicles produce sperm but need to be bathed in testosterone to keep them cranking out sperm at optimal rates). In some steroid users, sperm production never ceases and, in fact, the high concentration of testosterone flowing throughout the bloodstream (from it being exogenously injected) is enough to keep the sertoli cells functioning. In most people, however, the diluted testosterone we inject (it gets diluted by spreading it out throughout the blood stream) is not of high enough concentration to keep sperm production functional. Remember, locally produced testosterone (even though it's in small amounts) will keep sertoli cells working. Therefore, in order to maximize that your wife get pregnant, take HCG which mimics the pituitary hormones FSH/LH and will directly stimulate testosterone production from the testicles (where we want the highest concentrations).

[Mr Incredible]

I don't know if I have infertility issues or not because I've never tried to have kids. I already have the test sitting at home and it's so tempting. Maybe I should go to a fertility clinic and get tested and if I am fertile, maybe I sould have those little guys frozen. Any input?

pay for a sperm test; number per ml, total volume, motility and morphology.

There is a way you can maintain your sperm level while on, its called HMG, used concurrent with hcg. I'd be more interested though in finding out why your using the test, have you had a few test level checks then?

Given your age I'd prefer to cycle as opposed to staying on constant if I was your age again. This will give your body chance to recover each time and less chance of a long term fertility issue

[Mr Incredible]

This is what I was trying to say explained much better by Dr. Dave Pulumbo.


Q: Hi Dave, Is there a cycle you could go on if you still wanted to remain fertile while trying get you Mrs pregnant? Anything with test will make you infertile for a while correct?

A: Most anabolic steroid cycles will result in testosterone suppression which invariably suppresses sperm production (the sertoli cells found in the testicles produce sperm but need to be bathed in testosterone to keep them cranking out sperm at optimal rates). In some steroid users, sperm production never ceases and, in fact, the high concentration of testosterone flowing throughout the bloodstream (from it being exogenously injected) is enough to keep the sertoli cells functioning. In most people, however, the diluted testosterone we inject (it gets diluted by spreading it out throughout the blood stream) is not of high enough concentration to keep sperm production functional. Remember, locally produced testosterone (even though it's in small amounts) will keep sertoli cells working. Therefore, in order to maximize that your wife get pregnant, take HCG which mimics the pituitary hormones FSH/LH and will directly stimulate testosterone production from the testicles (where we want the highest concentrations).

He's wrong Lifts

HCG does not mimmic FSH, only LH.

Without FSH but high LH/HCG acting like LH you will achieve a high sperm number but very poor morphology. You need FSH and you can indeed mimmic this through HMG (Massone/Menopur)

In a perfect world and to create the perfect environment (subject to your own genetic potential) for spermogenesis you need test, FSH, LH. The minute you take one away you upset the balance and problems occur in the final outcome.

So if the TS is so concerned with fertility then its far simpler and cheaper that he stays off anything that will upset his endocrine system, the body will normally be far better at producing these hormones in proportionate levels to each other then us taking test then self medicating HCG and FSH concurrent. FSH/HMG 75iu 3 x per week aint cheap bro

[Trapology]

Just a quick question while u mega-minds are doing battle

what exactly is hcg supposed to do then? I know this is a generic question but you guys are tossing scientific facts around that im not sure many can follow

[Mr Incredible]

Just a quick question while u mega-minds are doing battle

what exactly is hcg supposed to do then? I know this is a generic question but you guys are tossing scientific facts around that im not sure many can follow

Hcg mimmics LH, in fact it has a more profound effect than LH itself in stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone. This very useful while on cycle to keep the testes stimulated to produce their own testosterone. Otherwise if they were shut down all through cycle, they would become dormant and then when you do your PCT they would only start to slowly come around perhaps as you were finishing your PCT. This way the testes are awake and functional already so respond to the PCT when it gets your own LH moving again.

The other way to do it would be to take LH while on, but that's very expensive whereas HCG is much cheaper

[liftsiron]

Hcg mimmics LH, in fact it has a more profound effect than LH itself in stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone. This very useful while on cycle to keep the testes stimulated to produce their own testosterone. Otherwise if they were shut down all through cycle, they would become dormant and then when you do your PCT they would only start to slowly come around perhaps as you were finishing your PCT. This way the testes are awake and functional already so respond to the PCT when it gets your own LH moving again.

The other way to do it would be to take LH while on, but that's very expensive whereas HCG is much cheaper

Very good answer!!!!

[Mr Incredible]

Very good answer!!!!

I probably learned it from you lol!

[Deacon]

Hcg mimmics LH, in fact it has a more profound effect than LH itself in stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone. This very useful while on cycle to keep the testes stimulated to produce their own testosterone. Otherwise if they were shut down all through cycle, they would become dormant and then when you do your PCT they would only start to slowly come around perhaps as you were finishing your PCT. This way the testes are awake and functional already so respond to the PCT when it gets your own LH moving again.

The other way to do it would be to take LH while on, but that's very expensive whereas HCG is much cheaper

the funny thing is that some doctors say that jacking off each day also promotes sperm production in the testes - ugh but I dont have any studies for that one

I still say I think it all gets confused and guys worry to much about it all - in reality most lifters run PCT to help keep their cycle gains not to have kids in the future - sometimes we are our own worse enemies I think

[D]

I had 2 test done, 4 months apart. Low test count each time. I am tired as fuck all the time and had to do something. I am currently on 200mg/week and feel so much better. I have been debating as far as staying on. I have talked to a few people and am thinking about cycling on and come off to recover and then back on.

pay for a sperm test; number per ml, total volume, motility and morphology.

There is a way you can maintain your sperm level while on, its called HMG, used concurrent with hcg. I'd be more interested though in finding out why your using the test, have you had a few test level checks then?Given your age I'd prefer to cycle as opposed to staying on constant if I was your age again. This will give your body chance to recover each time and less chance of a long term fertility issue

[liftsiron]

I had 2 test done, 4 months apart. Low test count each time. I am tired as fuck all the time and had to do something. I am currently on 200mg/week and feel so much better. I have been debating as far as staying on. I have talked to a few people and am thinking about cycling on and come off to recover and then back on.

If your hypogonal you won't recover when you cycle off. Your own test production will just be low and you will feel crappy again.

[Mr Incredible]

I had 2 test done, 4 months apart. Low test count each time. I am tired as fuck all the time and had to do something. I am currently on 200mg/week and feel so much better. I have been debating as far as staying on. I have talked to a few people and am thinking about cycling on and come off to recover and then back on.

Have you considered ways to stimulate your own test; SERMS, Nolvadex or AI's arimidex show great ability to increase lh production which in turn stimulates test

[D]

Come off completely and run Anti-estrogens?

Have you considered ways to stimulate your own test; SERMS, Nolvadex or AI's arimidex show great ability to increase lh production which in turn stimulates test

[Deacon]

Come off completely and run Anti-estrogens?

no you come off and run serms until recovered not anti-e's

I suggest hcg for several weeks at a stiff dose followed by 40 mgs of nolva for several weeks and then 20 mgs a day until feeling better

[Mr Incredible]

Deacon, I think this guy may be saying he's naturally got low test. Have you cycled before D? I.e. is your low test level a result of chemical suppression? Also are you on any meds; anti depressants etc? The point is that if there is nothing suppressing you that can be stopped, and your test is just naturally low then you can get prescrobed test or a patch etc. But at the start of thread you were worried about fertility and test exogeneous will affect this. I think that you should try nolva at 10mg per day for couple months and see if this elevates test. AIs have been shown to elevate test too but would probably eliminate more estrogen than needed. I would have to say though that this is the field of a urologyst

[Deacon]

Deacon, I think this guy may be saying he's naturally got low test. Have you cycled before D? I.e. is your low test level a result of chemical suppression? Also are you on any meds; anti depressants etc? The point is that if there is nothing suppressing you that can be stopped, and your test is just naturally low then you can get prescrobed test or a patch etc. But at the start of thread you were worried about fertility and test exogeneous will affect this. I think that you should try nolva at 10mg per day for couple months and see if this elevates test. AIs have been shown to elevate test too but would probably eliminate more estrogen than needed. I would have to say though that this is the field of a urologyst

if that is the case your right on!