Waxy Maize Starch

[KC Lifter]

but still I do not hear anyone talking about vitagro, if it is that great people would be raving about it.

I don't think anyone would say Vitargo doesn't work it's mainly because it's expensive to use year round.

[PTAaron]

but still I do not hear anyone talking about vitagro, if it is that great people would be raving about it.

True, but you have to look at the purpose of the suppliment - to quickly replenish muscle glycogen post workout, or in pre-contest cases to help with carb loading. How many people do you really hear talking about those topics anyway? Not that many on most message boards. Hell I wouldn't even have looked twice at this product if I hadn't seen all of the posts about it on the IM.com site - but after reading up on it, it looks like it might be worth testing out. I already use detrose/malto mix post workout (3 scoops), so switching to this if it only takes 1.5 scoops will be about the same cost (it is 2x the price of the other), so there is really nothing to lose for me.

I look at it kind of like Creatine Ethyl Ester -it sounded like a bunch of hype the first time I heard about it, and it wasn't really something people were talking about on the boards yet. Now look around - it is everywhere, and it is a product that you hear people raving about all the time. I could be wrong, but the people I have seen making comments about it are people that really have nothing to gain from the comments - and they are people that I have a lot of respect for.

[Stout1]

Yeah, thats the only negative that I can see with it... but as long as you can get to a blender within 45 minutes you shouldn't have to worry about it.

to me it defeats the purpose.

The waixy maze starch is supposed to be fast acting. But how fast is it when you have to drive home from the gym to consume it? You might as well save your money and stick with dex/malto dex combo and consume it immediatly after you workout. You'll probably replinish your glycogen storage in the same time after you figure in drive home time from the gym to use a blender.

[PTAaron]

Either way for me I still have my shake when I get home from the gym... I get sick if I try eating a baked potato, 2 boxes of raisins, and a 90g protein/3 scoop dex/malto shake too close to my workouts Of course I only have a 20 minute drive from my old gym, and my new gym will be 5 minutes... so that isn't much of a delay.
I think the fact that it is so quickly utilized is more of a benefit because it takes "other things with it" when it is absorbed, like they said in the thing about Vitargo. Not so much that you get "refilled faster" after a workout, but that it gets shoved into the muscles faster after being consumed so it isn't sitting in the stomach being broken down. At least that is how I interpretted things.

[goes4ever]

well PT you try it and report back to us if you see any benefit

[KC Lifter]

If you order before the 19th it's buy 3lbs get 1 free. Enter MAIZE in the discount box.

[PTAaron]

Just ordered some... won't be doing much with it for a while, but I wanted to take advantage of that deal.

[PTAaron]

Some more info DC just put up:

With a 70cc scoop (regular scoop) if you cut it off at the top its 40 grams, if you take a heaping scoop (which is what 99% of you all do) its 50 grams per scoop.

Waxy maize by itself will replenish glycogen after a workout or cardio faster than almost any other ingredient out there. It does this "glycogen replenishment" thru an extremely rapid stomach emptying rate. Whats this mean to you? What do you think you can combine with waxy maize to shuttle thru the digestive process at a blinding rate? Protein powder postworkout, creatine, bcaa's, and so on.

On off training days when your looking flat what do you think is the product that is going to remedy that faster than anything? In a weight gaining aspect its a perfect supplement to take on "refeed days", maybe at post cardio (meal one), and then 2 other key meals during that day where your taking in protein drinks

In 2 cut off scoops of waxy maize (80 grams), there are about 73 grams of carbs. In 2 heaping scoops of waxy maize (100grams) there is 92 grams of carbohydrates, 90 of which come from starch and the other 2 are simple carbs. I believe absorbtion and digestion are the new area's the supplement industry is going to go after to produce the most "anabolic" effect to normal nutritional supplement intake....and this is pretty much the start to that frontier.

Alot of top pro and amateur competitors are using waxy maize to carb up for their shows and its become "the in thing secret"

and this was just posted on the TrueProtein website:

NOW IN STOCK

True Protein’s Waxy Maize Starch is derived from natural corn starch and is a food grade modified starch. It is very bland in flavor and has a white fluffy like consistency. We recommend using a shaker or a blender (this is best) to mix this product as it does not mix well. Immediate use is recommended as it has a tendency to clump. We have gone through great lengths testing and tweaking our Waxy Maize Starch to be palatable. We have found one that tastes fairly well and functionality wise it is top of the line.

So what’s so special with Waxy Maize in comparison to dextrose or maltodextrin? Many people have used a mix of dextrose and maltodextrin for post workout nutrition for years because it works and is vital for proper glycogen replenishment. Welcome to the new era of post workout nutrition… Waxy Maize Starch. WMS has a much higher molecular weight and a much lower osmolarity rate compared to dextrose or maltodextrin, so what does this mean… Mainly, WMS bypasses the stomach, is absorbed by the intestines and immediately is assimilated; this is all done at a much faster rate than dextrose or maltodextrin, almost double.

WMS can help the absorption rates of many of your favorite supplements like creatine monohydrate, creatine ethyl ester, cell volumization and nitric oxide type supplements, etc. Nutrients like this often times are left in the stomachs harsh acidic environment and degrade absorption rates. WMS helps shuttle these nutrients to bypass the stomach and allow the body to assimilate these nutrients at a much higher rate.

WMS has the ability to replenish the body’s glycogen stores much faster than a mix of maltodextrin or dextrose. This is accomplished again by WMS’s ability to bypass the stomach and go to the intestines for immediate absorption. WMS’s ability to shuttle all these nutrients and starch gives the body an immediate "pump" you can physically feel in your muscles post workout. You will see a much larger, fuller and rounder muscle belly.

Dextrose and maltodextrin can cause water retention and bloating, hence WMS’s popularity with pre contest and contest preparation carbohydrate replenishment. Many dieters choose WMS as their carb of choice as it is sugar free and an ideal source of a long chain complex carbohydrate.

We recommend starting with one 70 cc scoop post workout and see how your body responds.

[RJH8541]

So far I have to agree with G4E on this one. Too much hype and not enough solid evidence... besides Dante who obviously sells the product.

The only thing I see here yet is that pros and nationally ranked Bbers are using this for carb up during show prep. Well, if that is it, then what about us recreational guys who don't compete? There are a lot of things that comp guys need that I don't, and for that i will do just fine with my dex/oats/pro shake PWO.

good read though.

[KC Lifter]

So far I have to agree with G4E on this one. Too much hype and not enough solid evidence... besides Dante who obviously sells the product.

The only thing I see here yet is that pros and nationally ranked Bbers are using this for carb up during show prep. Well, if that is it, then what about us recreational guys who don't compete? There are a lot of things that comp guys need that I don't, and for that i will do just fine with my dex/oats/pro shake PWO.

good read though.

I'll be using it starting next week and will give my feedback on it. From what I've read from the guys that have used it it is far superior to maltodextrin and dextrose. If Dante says it's better than I'm sold.

[PTAaron]

More on it from Doug (TPC over on IM.com):

i will try my best at describing my personal beliefs about WMS (waxy maize starch) from personal experience as well as research i have done on the subject. WMS really is an extremely unique substance and works on a very different mechanism to the usual malt/dex carbohydrate mix, especially dealing with its response with insulin. most think a higher rate of absorption/assimilation/digestion takes more insulin or a greater insulin response to shuttle nutrients and to replenish glycogen stores, i think WMS is going to prove this wrong. WMS is very different, hence why many have been using this stuff while dieting and not getting the usual dex/malt spill over or bloat many people experience.

WMS differs from malt or dex (especially dex) in 2 main ways... WMS has a significantly greater molecular weight and lower osmolarity of the 2. without going into the science of john dalton, molecular mass, or osmotic pressure, what do these 2 main details mean to us, athletes...

first because of the greater molecular weight, WMS has the ability to quickly bypass much of the harsh digestion process in the stomach and go to the intestines (ileum) for immediate absorption. "yeah so what..." well in theory, this allows this complex carbohydrate to stay in long chain polymer form before being broken down or digested after it has crossed the intestinal wall. which in turn causes a low glycemic response as these polymer chains are virtually untouched as they are still in tact before the stomach had time to break them down and are broken down at a much lower rate. with malt or dex, their glycemic response is very high. dex is basically pure glucose, so the obvious spike in insulin is evident, but even though malt is considered a complex carb, it is broken down extremely fast and causes a very quick spike in insulin.

second, the low osmolarity of this substance makes WMS highly absorbable driving itself across the intestinal wall and into the bloodstream. This low osmolarity allows substance to reach the muscle cells quickly.

i personally believe these 2 actions will increase absorption of many other supplemental aides by signifcant numbers. first the ability of WMS to allow substances to bypass much of the stomachs harsh acids is huge. many substances, like creatines, amino acids, etc. can sit in these acidic environments and degrade and make them useless. and second the low osmolarity of WMS has the ability to take other materials across the intestinal wall fairly easy (absorption) and then materials are driven to various cells (assimilation) to take on their action. i really believe you are going to see WMS in the future as the next "transport system" not only for creatine but for many other aides, and it doesn't work on the high insulin response mechanism for absorption either, which is a plus.

many are talking about "feeling" WMS and mistaking it as a hypoglycemic response. i can not say really what it is from a personal or from med-line searches, but it feels like a hypoglycemic episode is about to happen, but it never really quite takes you to being hypo. it is strange really, i have made myself hypo countless times usually from the over use of ALA and dextrose so i know the feeling. something else is happing here, as the insulin response to WMS is fairly low. i guess only time will tell as well as new theories will arise to what it is.

ok, i have rambled enough. as soon as our new site is up and our article section gets wrapped up, i know dante and i are going to go into great detail and study with WMS. it really is a unique and new substance (well at least how we are using it) so discussion and personal experience is important. we love to hear your opinions and thoughts about this material...

doug

[Stout1]

Well, I believe DC. He has always been solid and has never steered anyone wrong. So I bought some I'll let ya know what I think when I try it.

[PTAaron]

If any of you guys are on IM.com check out that waxy maize thread I linked to earlier... he is giving out 1 free lb to anyone that has been there for a while and has a post count of at least 50.

[PTAaron]

Just got my waxy maize ... so of course I had to sample it. First off the consistnacy of the powder is exactly like flour (since that is pretty much what it is)... so getting water on it makes it a gooey mess. Don't ask how I know.
The recommendations said to start up your blender running on low with 20oz water in it then add the waxy maize, then add your protein and other things... so I attempted that. Put the water in my blender (keep in mind this has been used only 1 other time) added some TP fruit punch powder to it, some glutamine, CEE, and arginine... and hit the "low" button, thinking it would start out nice and slow. Nope. I forgot that I bought the "super high power extra turbo charged" blender. Red water ALL OVER... on me, on the floor, on the counter, on the wall... okay, thats not the way to do it! So I put some more water back into it, got it going on "low" with the top on... popped the top and dumped in 1 heaping scooper of Waxy Maize, and let it go for a bit. Looked like a typical protein shake. So I stopped the blender and added in my 3 scoops of whey, and fired it back up... chugged it down just a few minutes ago and it tasted great, like a typical shake does. I'll add to this if I start noticing the "feelings" that others have been talking about after drinking a WMS shake... at the moment I just feel like I drank a big freakin shake.
Time to go put on some clothes that don't have fruit punch all over them...

[PTAaron]

many are talking about "feeling" WMS and mistaking it as a hypoglycemic response. i can not say really what it is from a personal or from med-line searches, but it feels like a hypoglycemic episode is about to happen, but it never really quite takes you to being hypo. it is strange really, i have made myself hypo countless times usually from the over use of ALA and dextrose so i know the feeling. something else is happing here, as the insulin response to WMS is fairly low. i guess only time will tell as well as new theories will arise to what it is.

I would agree with this feeling... started sweating and face feels flushed kind of like I just finished an insane leg workout and need to go down some orange juice. I'm going to guess that it is related, because I haven't really done anything else since drinking the shake. Interesting. On another note I don't feel like I have 3 gallons of water in my stomach like I usually do after my post workout shakes that had 3 scoops of dextrose/malto and 3 scoops of whey.