Volume vs. the Pump vs. ..?

[BrutalHoney]

So I'm trying to decide how to do my accessory work.

For background: I like to start a workout with a heavy major lift. Bench, Press, Good Morning, Squat... Then I do the relevant accessory work. Dumbbell presses, flys, extensions, glute-ham raises... whatever's working.

But I'm feeling the need to change things up a bit. I don't want to stop opening with a major lift. Every time I do that (on things like bench, especially), I get weaker. Fast. But the accessories, I'm not sure what to do.

I'm considering just straight sets of things like I've done, 3x15 or whatever; or maybe rest-pause sets, or drop sets, or super sets...

I'm not sure what I should be going after. Should I be concerned with the volume, chasing the pump..?

What's everyone's thoughts on this, let's hash it out.

[Dawgpound_Hank]

I do the same - always start with a basic/compound exercise for said bdpt. I pyramid up to a heavy weight for 6-8 reps. I rest the longest between sets on this exercise to allow enough recovery to throw around the heavy stuff. Next exercise will usually be in the 8-12 rep range with shorter rest periods between sets. Next exercise or 2 will be those pumpers per se, in the 12-20 range with very short rest periods, often utilizing drop sets or 21's. This way I get the best of all worlds - has worked for me for a long time in this game.

[Dawgpound_Hank]

One more thing - I noticed you refer to exercises outside of the compounds as "acessories", which most powerlifters do. You need to change that mentality if you want to put on as much muscle as possible. I see a few younger dudes come into the gym and bust ass on flat bench on chest day. They work up to like 315 for 2 or 3 allout reps. Then they go over to db incline press and use only 60lb dbs! One of them I am good friends with, so I ask him a few months back why he plays with pussy db's when obviously could use much more. I told him he should easily be using the 90's or more for 8-12 if he's benching 315 for 3. He took my advice, and his chest is growing. I hit EVERY exercise with the same attitude - kill it! You may want to try the same mindset, and be surprised with the results.

[liftsiron]

I like volume training, I start with a major compound exercise do 6-10 sets depending on how I feel, then go to another compound and do another 6-10 sets, and on some days add a third compound exercise then call it a day. On other days I do two compounds and some other non compound work.

[BrutalHoney]

@dawgpound
I've learned that lesson too. I used to do hammer curls for 40lbs, for instance, then dropped it to 35... way better work on the actual muscle. So, drop it to 30... better still!

Also, can you post an example of what you described first? I think I get the idea, but I wanna see.

EDIT

Wait, I just reread... and I think I'm thinking opposite..? What is the "accessory" "mentality" you're talking about, I think I'm lost.

[Dawgpound_Hank]

Sure, here's an example chest workout regarding my first post:

Warmup... then:

1) bench press - 8, 8, 6 (rest 3-4 minutes between sets to ensure max recovery for heaviest weights possible)

2) incline db press - 12, 10, 8 (rest 2 minutes between sets - slightly less rest time, but still going heavy as possible)

3) flat db flyes - 12, 12, 10 (rest 1 minute between sets - not much rest, the pump is on bigtime - still don't use pussy ass weights)

4) cable crossovers/flyes - 20, 20 (rest 20-30 seconds between sets - you will get that mind blowing pump to finish due to very short rests - but yet STILL, use a heavy enough weight that the last rep of each set is the last one you can do using good form - pecs should be on fire)

You bust ass on ALL exercises, not just bench. Regarding "accessory exercises" - that term, accessory, or assistance work, is usually used by powerlifters when referring to all other exercises other than the big 3 - bench, deads & squats. Nothing wrong with that in their world, bcoz their primary concern IS to increase those big 3 lifts. They usually don't bust ass/grind on the accessory exercises even remotely as much as when working the big 3, and there's a reason for that, which isn't relevant here.

As a bodybuilder, I don't call those other exercises outside of the big 3 "accessory exercises". I'm not concerned about doing those exercises to solely increase the big 3 lifts - I'm doing them to gain as much dense muscle as possible. So I don't go into the gym and only get psyched up for a big-3 lift, and when it comes to all other exercises I just half ass it or use light weights - no - I go all the fuck out on everything I do. After benches, when I get to incline db press, you can bet your ass I am psyching myself up for that set just as much as if I'm preparing to deadlift 500lbs. I don't just go over and casually grab some 60lb db's, then easily get the reps in and do it all over again. Fuck that. I get psyched, get pissed, grab the 120's or 130's and bang out 10 hard ass grinding reps. Same with the next exercise flyes - I don't think "well hell, the pressing movements are over, so time to half ass it with some light weight flyes just to get a pump". Fuck that - I grab some 80's and bust ass to get 10 to 12 reps.

Ya follow me now? In short, bust ass on everything you do and keep the focus - be it that last set of benches for a heavy ass 6 reps, OR that last set of flyes that your shooting for 10 -12 reps. Btw all I am preaching here is nothing unorthodox or "out there" by any means bro. It all comes down to hard work, on ALL exercises, not just the big 3. Simple.

NOTE: I am NOT saying the way I work out is THEE best way for everybody by any means. As you can see by LI's post, he likes high volume. Find what gives you the best results and stick with it.

[BrutalHoney]

Is this a once-a-week schedule?

[Dawgpound_Hank]

Yup.

[Dawgpound_Hank]

Btw that was an example workout - I haven't flat bb benched in years bcoz rc issues.

[BrutalHoney]

What kind of weights/percentages/whatever did you use when pyramiding?

[Dawgpound_Hank]

What kind of weights/percentages/whatever did you use when pyramiding?

I never use percentages bcoz I rarely did a one rep max to know what percentage it would be. It's simple dude - if you see a set calls for 6 reps, then use a heavy enough weight where you can get 6 reps and only 6 reps. If you can get 7 or 8, add a little weight next time so you can only get 6. If you can only get 4 or 5, decrease the weight so you can get 6. The goal is to always strive to get one more rep than last workout - using the same weight of course. Once you can beat the reps required, add weight to bring you back down to the rep range you're shooting for. Progressive resistance - get stronger for reps & get bigger.

[water43]

I usualy just pyramid to the weight that I only get 5-6 reps ang cant rack it without my one of my daughters help me get it racked ...% I have no idea

[BrutalHoney]

What about the sets of 8s before the last 6 though?

[Dawgpound_Hank]

Same thing. A workset is a workset is a workset.

[MR. BMJ]

I usually do my warm-up sets as needed, then complete 1-2 working sets per exercise. I usually keep it to 2-3 exercises per body part because I like to recover quicker and train them again sooner in 4-5 days (ala DC training). My working sets can just be straight sets to failure, or DC style drop sets. Reps vary depending on the body part worked. Now that I'm getting a little older, I try to not go below 6-8 reps if I can avoid it. Some body parts I use between 12-20+ reps, usually as a drop set. I rest between 1-3 minutes....or longer if doing legs/squats/deads.