A skinny wolf

[Dawgpound_Hank]

Remember guys, gear will only add that final 5-10% to your physique.

It really is amazing how some of these guys like Wolf, Levrone, etc when off can shrink down sooo much. And yet, 99.9% of guys out there can run more than them, and never come close to achieving their level of development. Having genetics for an awesome response to AAS is of utmost importance to be elite, that's for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-vlPH89Mcg

[Dakota]

Yes, we get so tired of hearing gear talked about like it is a magic bean. You could inject it with a grease gun and you won't get gains without a ton of hard work and diet. I agree with your 10% analogy.

[liftsiron]

Remember guys, gear will only add that final 5-10% to your physique.

It really is amazing how some of these guys like Wolf, Levrone, etc when off can shrink down sooo much. And yet, 99.9% of guys out there can run more than them, and never come close to achieving their level of development. Having genetics for an awesome response to AAS is of utmost importance to be elite, that's for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-vlPH89Mcg

I agree 100%.

[Joe0690]

Another person who proves this is Boston lyode or however u spell his name who took ridiculous amounts of juice and couldn’t get to the elite level big

[b52]

I still think Dennis looks great. You can't stay that big forever. He probably feels a lot better too. But yes, gear is not magic, and requires you to bust ass to reap any benefits. I also think anyone at an elite level is just a super responder to gear on top of already good genetics. Combine that with work ethic and they're unstoppable. Shit, I know I can't reach that level. I can't even reach the level of some of the guys on here, and even they don't have the genes of guys like Wolf.

[Roughrydr]

I think gear is way more than 10% of the equation. I would say it's closer to 50%. On the right gear and doses you can eat garbage, train minimally and see great results. Will you ever be an IMDb pro like that? No, of course not. But who gives a shit? 99.9% of us never will be and dont want to be. We use for vanity, longevity and ego. Just my 50 cent.

[Dakota]

50??? Really Ruff? Holy Crow!

If gear accounted for 50% of my gains I would be a twig without gear. Currently 190. Well either that or I am a lazy MOFO that isnt' realizing the other 40% of gains due to lack of effort.

Explain more clearly on how you theorize on how gear can account for 50% of your gains. I am assuming you mean size. Not strength.

As an example, I trained for years to go from a 98lb Sophomore wrestler to 119 as a junior to 132 as a Senior. I worked up to 160 lbs and arms around 16 1/2 years later. My first cycle in my late 20s took up to around 175 + and 17 inch arms. Years later on and off cycles I am 190 with arms just over 18. Even at a Dbol/Deca/winny/gh blast in my late 30s up to 220 my arms were around 18 1/2. Depending now you view it I stil can't credit gear with 50%.

[b52]

50??? Really Ruff? Holy Crow!

If gear accounted for 50% of my gains I would be a twig without gear. Currently 190. Well either that or I am a lazy MOFO that isnt' realizing the other 40% of gains due to lack of effort.

Explain more clearly on how you theorize on how gear can account for 50% of your gains. I am assuming you mean size. Not strength.

As an example, I trained for years to go from a 98lb Sophomore wrestler to 119 as a junior to 132 as a Senior. I worked up to 160 lbs and arms around 16 1/2 years later. My first cycle in my late 20s took up to around 175 + and 17 inch arms. Years later on and off cycles I am 190 with arms just over 18. Even at a Dbol/Deca/winny/gh blast in my late 30s up to 220 my arms were around 18 1/2. Depending now you view it I stil can't credit gear with 50%.

I think he's just stating that you'd probably never get to a certain level of development without it. So even if it's 10% you'd never get to that next level regardless of what level you're at without it. Genetics play a huge role. Rough probably responds better than some of us. I know guys that grow substantially off 200mg of test, where as I need 600 just to get the same punch.

[Dakota]

I totally get that but it also seems those that are predisposed to huge muscle growth are also the best responders to gear. A double gift.

[b52]

I totally get that but it also seems those that are predisposed to huge muscle growth are also the best responders to gear. A double gift.

Would be nice wouldn't it?

[reps]

It comes down to genetics. If you take 99 people who work out put wolf in the mix give them all the same gear wolf would still dominate. He has more receptors. My 2cents

[Dawgpound_Hank]

Btw I was being sarcastic about gear only giving a 5-10% edge.

There's too many examples to count. If you have ever come off 100% for a long ass time you will know. I'm not just talking about muscle size, but everything - density, vascularity, the whole ball of wax. Look at Arnold's pics when he was obviously OFF during his competitive years - night and day. 5% my ass haha.

I came off entirely from 2011 to 2015. I dropped from 250 to 235, and pretty much stayed around 235 the entire 4 years OFF. While that might not sound like so much of a drop, the density and vascularity certainly took a hit also. And to boot, during those 4 years I trained my ass off just like if I was ON, and same goes for nutrition.

While many say gear is NOT magic, I will be the first to disagree. Considering one is busting ass in the gym, nutrition and rest is on point, when you have been plateaued for a long ass time (years in my case being I trained 25 years natty), and you jump on some gear, and suddenly you are making "n00b-like" gains again, fuck yeah it's magic. I could be ON, live at McDonalds, train half ass, and make much better gains than if OFF and training and diet is on point. Matter of fact, it's not even close.

Any who disagrees, go clean for a year - gear, gh, peps, everything - and come holla back in a year.

[Dakota]

I would have to give you the nod on all the other muscle qualities you mention but size wise and pure LEAN muscle, I would still say the average joe gets a 10% boost maybe a tad more, excluding water weight. Think about it. A 200lber has and extra 20 lbs of mass. In my case I would say that is not too far off.

[Dawgpound_Hank]

I would have to give you the nod on all the other muscle qualities you mention but size wise and pure LEAN muscle, I would still say the average joe gets a 10% boost maybe a tad more, excluding water weight. Think about it. A 200lber has and extra 20 lbs of mass. In my case I would say that is not too far off.

Much of it depends on how big of cycle a guy is running. I think that's why we see alot of pros who come off or trt lose a shitload of size. They are running some serious cycles. Speaking for myself, first cycle was a simple test 500mg ew took me from 240 to 254. However when I ran my biggest cycle ever of test 750, deca 500, tren e 400 & M1T I got up to close to 280. That's 40lbs up from natty, and that's what about 16-17% gain? And that's under 2g ew - I can't imagine if the doses were quite higher, with gh and slin in there - prolly 300? Now your talking 25%. So if going by just scale weight in your example, the potential is there to be a shitload more with larger doses - which of course applies to the pros cycles. Btw that was 15 years back - I don't even touch that amount these days haha.

p.s - I get you was talking about the average Joe. I am talking about pros, hence the Wolf vid initially. They get a shitload more than a 5-10% boost.

[Roughrydr]

I will use my own experiences as my examples. I eat the same year round. Sometimes I get sloppy by adding cake or pie, but that is not an every day thing. I'm pretty much a meat and either rice or some form of potatoes with a green veggie in there guy. Two large meals a day and an average breakfast. I'm taking in 3000 to 3500 calories a day. I weight train four or five times a week. Always the same. Sometimes I may do more reps if I'm not drained from work, or if I've busted my butt in the heat all day my rep ranges may be fewer. No matter what I'm running.
On average I'm between 235-245.
If I begin doing 750mg test a week, 600 mg deca a week, 100 mg tbol ed, I, on the same diet, same training regimen will easily go up to 275-280 with bf in the teens.
Now if i want to push it i throw in my insulin and hgh, i could easily hit 300lbs lean. But why?
What's the difference? The steroids and other growth factors.
That's been my personal experience. I've never been 300 lbs. Hell at my height at 280, which I have hit and maintained, I look freakish enough. If after years of use you can only gain 20 lbs, and i mean absolutely no disrespect, something ain't right. Naturally you can gain and keep about 5 lbs of muscle a year if that your goal.
It's not my intent to disrespect anyones opinion. But I know my experience.