Injectable L-Carnitine with Insulin

[01dragonslayer]

Hey brothas. If you don't mind I need some clarification as I am about to start some injectable l-carn and novolog along side my already AM dose of GH. I have read many conflicting opinions but not quite sure what is right or wrong so I need some insight from someone who has much experience with injectable L-Carn and slin....

Just a few questions(for now)...

1. The timing issue of GH, slin and inj. l-carn. I train first thing in the AM getting up around 5. I know you want glucose levels low as possible and free of insulin when administering your GH for it to be most effective. What would be the most effective and best way to time these three prior to my workout? GH....wait 15-20min?....then inject the insulin and l-carn?....or l-carn then insulin? I may add that I always like to train fasted.

2. I have read that there should be a 'loading phase' or 'saturation' dose for injectable L-carn for 2 weeks and then continue with your maintenance dose from there. What would be that dose for 190lbs?.....then maintenance would be half your saturation?

3. What would be your recommended dose of novolog along side the l-carn?

Just an 'in general' idea of how you would go about administering/dosing these three first thing in the AM prior to my training. Thanks for all the help.

[Kluso]

I’m assuming goal is weight loss since you are using L-Carnatine? Also does the insulin have to be preworkout? Because honestly it would be better to inject the insulin postworkout if that is the goal. Or not use insulin at all. But honestly I have zero experience with L-Carn so maybe that changes something.

[01dragonslayer]

Not so much weight loss but fat loss as L-carn is excellent at transporting fat cells into your blood stream to be burned and used as fuel.

When injecting L-carn it needs a carrier to be transported across the barrier and the absolute best way is with an insulin spike....humalog/novalog right prior to activity and then used as fuel. Or oral intake of fast digesting carbs which may take slightly longer to create the spike.

L-carn's oral bioavailability is crap....like 18% as opposed with injectable which is 100.

[Kluso]

Well, like u said in #1 of your OP, you don’t want an insulin spike around same time as your Hgh. Or insulin to be high lather. So if it were me I would either take hgh first thing am and stay fasted thru workout and then take l-carn and log postworkout or afternoon. Keeping hgh and slin injections at least 3 hours apart. 5 hours even better. Or take l-carn and log with a meal preworkout and then take my hgh in the afternoon or before bed. But that’s only basing off my knowledge of hgh and log. Hopefully someone with L-Carn experience can chime in.

[01dragonslayer]

Well, like u said in #1 of your OP, you don’t want an insulin spike around same time as your Hgh. Or insulin to be high lather. So if it were me I would either take hgh first thing am and stay fasted thru workout and then take l-carn and log postworkout or afternoon. Keeping hgh and slin injections at least 3 hours apart. 5 hours even better. Or take l-carn and log with a meal preworkout and then take my hgh in the afternoon or before bed. But that’s only basing off my knowledge of hgh and log. Hopefully someone with L-Carn experience can chime in.

Thanks for all the insight brotha.....

[warreng]

I always take slin (humalog) and growth together - pre-workout and post. That's how Dr. Iron used to do it. He said they complement each other very nicely. Might it not be splitting hairs to worry about timing your gh - it's still a bunch of gh in your system that is going to hang out in your system for a long time and do its thing?

I've been interested in inj L-Carn. I heard it can send you to the bathroom though. Usually I eat a meal and then about 45 mins to 1 hr later, inject slin and gh and then train immediately. Would I just throw the carn in with the slin and gh?

[Kluso]

So here’s the thing. Insulin spike is not good for fat loss. It won’t necessarily make you fat. But it sure as hell isn’t going to help with fat loss. It reduces lipolysis big time. But L-carn Is supposed to increase fat loss/ lipolysis. But u have to use insulin to get better absorption? It just seems counter productive to me. Unless the L-carn has a very long half life. Much longer than the insulin. Would seem like log would be best choice for insulin unless the L-carn somehow counteracts the effect on lipolysis from insulin? I have no education on L-carn at all. But from what I understand I would take the L-carn near the end of the insulin spike or midway at least. So maybe 2 hours post insulin injection. That way insulin levels are still high to help with L-carb absorption but insulin levels would drop shortly after injecting the L-carn. I agree insulin and hgh should be taken together for muscle growth. But if trying to lose bodyfat, like Dragonslayer, I would either not use insulin or time my hgh away from it. If L-carn somehow counteracts insulin’s effect of lipolysis then shit, take all three together.

[01dragonslayer]

I always take slin (humalog) and growth together - pre-workout and post. That's how Dr. Iron used to do it. He said they complement each other very nicely. Might it not be splitting hairs to worry about timing your gh - it's still a bunch of gh in your system that is going to hang out in your system for a long time and do its thing?

I've been interested in inj L-Carn. I heard it can send you to the bathroom though. Usually I eat a meal and then about 45 mins to 1 hr later, inject slin and gh and then train immediately. Would I just throw the carn in with the slin and gh?

..............

[01dragonslayer]

So here’s the thing. Insulin spike is not good for fat loss. It won’t necessarily make you fat. But it sure as hell isn’t going to help with fat loss. It reduces lipolysis big time. But L-carn Is supposed to increase fat loss/ lipolysis. But u have to use insulin to get better absorption? It just seems counter productive to me. Unless the L-carn has a very long half life. Much longer than the insulin. Would seem like log would be best choice for insulin unless the L-carn somehow counteracts the effect on lipolysis from insulin? I have no education on L-carn at all. But from what I understand I would take the L-carn near the end of the insulin spike or midway at least. So maybe 2 hours post insulin injection. That way insulin levels are still high to help with L-carb absorption but insulin levels would drop shortly after injecting the L-carn. I agree insulin and hgh should be taken together for muscle growth. But if trying to lose bodyfat, like Dragonslayer, I would either not use insulin or time my hgh away from it. If L-carn somehow counteracts insulin’s effect of lipolysis then shit, take all three together.

...........

[warreng]

So here’s the thing. Insulin spike is not good for fat loss. It won’t necessarily make you fat. But it sure as hell isn’t going to help with fat loss. It reduces lipolysis big time. But L-carn Is supposed to increase fat loss/ lipolysis. But u have to use insulin to get better absorption? It just seems counter productive to me. Unless the L-carn has a very long half life. Much longer than the insulin. Would seem like log would be best choice for insulin unless the L-carn somehow counteracts the effect on lipolysis from insulin? I have no education on L-carn at all. But from what I understand I would take the L-carn near the end of the insulin spike or midway at least. So maybe 2 hours post insulin injection. That way insulin levels are still high to help with L-carb absorption but insulin levels would drop shortly after injecting the L-carn. I agree insulin and hgh should be taken together for muscle growth. But if trying to lose bodyfat, like Dragonslayer, I would either not use insulin or time my hgh away from it. If L-carn somehow counteracts insulin’s effect of lipolysis then shit, take all three together.

One has to make some concessions to convenience. An hour or two into my insulin spike, I'm doing my workout. There's no way I'm going to stop my workout to go inject L-carn. I'll do it before or after but I think during is overboard.

[01dragonslayer]

One has to make some concessions to convenience. An hour or two into my insulin spike, I'm doing my workout. There's no way I'm going to stop my workout to go inject L-carn. I'll do it before or after but I think during is overboard.

Judging by this statement do you have a protocol for injectable L-carn?

[Kluso]

So does anyone know if Lcarn blocks insulin’s effects on lipolysis? Or what the active life is? You guys gonna make me look this stuff up aren’t you?

[Kluso]

One has to make some concessions to convenience. An hour or two into my insulin spike, I'm doing my workout. There's no way I'm going to stop my workout to go inject L-carn. I'll do it before or after but I think during is overboard.

What’s old friend! What. You can’t run out to the car real quick? Lol. If your pinning your insulin immediately preworkout than postworkout would be perfect imo. I know u like long workouts. Just drink a high carb postworkout shake with it to make sure insulin is still high. I think I’m gonna see what I can find out about this stuff. I’m interested now.

[01dragonslayer]

So does anyone know if Lcarn blocks insulin’s effects on lipolysis? Or what the active life is? You guys gonna make me look this stuff up aren’t you?

From my research....no. Novolog is there to shuttle the L-carn and produce a better uptake into the cells where it then can release fat storages resulting in the body as its fuel source. If I remember correctly the half-life of L-carn is fairly long....something like 36hrs?

[warreng]

What’s old friend! What. You can’t run out to the car real quick? Lol. If your pinning your insulin immediately preworkout than postworkout would be perfect imo. I know u like long workouts. Just drink a high carb postworkout shake with it to make sure insulin is still high. I think I’m gonna see what I can find out about this stuff. I’m interested now.

I pin growth and slin *both* pre- and post-workout. 10 iu of humalog each, the gh varies (lower when not blasting, higher when blasting). 10 iu is the sweet spot for me. I was up to 15 iu but I would start shaking on occasion. More is not necessarily more with slin. I find that pre-, peri-, and -post workout nutrition along with slin, gh, some kind of cialis or viagra, creatine, bcaa, 25 mgs of dbol, and at every workout some high-intensity, high-rep sets (with rest pause, drop sets, supersets, etc.) to pump as much blood as possible into your muscles will give you incredible visual effects and make you look massive. It's similar to so-called "blood volume training." It is extremely important to saturate the body with protein, aminos, carbs (I like Gatorade) before, during and after training. That is the single most important five-hour window. I would even argue that you may not even need to eat like a maniac on off days, but I do anyway, just to be safe.

On the other hand, while this method will give quality size gains with definition and muscularity, it is not necessarily good for fat loss. I don't do cardio except for take walks and run around and shoot hoops on the basketball court with my two-year old son. Oddly, that does slim me down but too much cardio will cause me to lose gains, so I'm looking for away to "hack" the fat loss process. Although then again, isn't everyone? If you can find a way to burn fat without doing a bunch of bullshit cardio, you'd make a billion dollars. I like running stairs but "jogging" is for people who get murdered in Central Park and end up getting found with their feet sticking out of the bushes on a show like Unsolved Mysteries.