Should/Do Bodybuilders Take Extra Iron Because of Anabolics?

[kriegernindo]

I'm at the gym working out right now and just got this question flashed across my mind.

It comes in light of the recently discovered fact that I may very well be anemic and for quite a few years now. I've had all the symptoms and have tried every herb and supplement under the sun almost to try to help my dizziness and other symptoms like extreme fatigue and light headed ness.

I don't want to make this about me. I can share more if the thread grows or just in passing but my question is...

Since anabolic steroids raise RBC wouldn't bodybuilders at least after a while need to supplement with a highly absorbable form of iron (forget about getting enough from food, trust me, I know a lot about soil depletion) since iron along with folate and B12 are needed to make new RBC?

Otherwise the RBC become enlarged and die quicker as a result and this can lead to many problems, not the least of which is cardiovascular disease

Also a fun fact I learned recently is that the NIH estimates 30% of the world population is actually anemic.

Can follow up with studies or evidence later.

I'm truly curious.

Anyone have any thoughts? I wonder if Arnold took iron?

[kriegernindo]

I forgot to mention, all praise be to GOD, the last day has been truly wonderful. I slept better last night than I have in two years and I started supplementing with iron and nettle leaf (used in TCM to cure anemia) a couple days ago and for once I'm not out of breath or dizzy like I was.

I was also diagnosed as anemic in high school before ever starting gear.

The problem with being anemic is not even rest helps. It's like you're fatigued even resting and wake up extremely tired even after 12 hours of sleep because there's simply not enough red blood cells to carry oxygen.

[kriegernindo]

"Blood transport proteins called transferrin and ceruloplasmin carry iron to all of your body's tissues, vital organs and bone marrow. This process allows your body to regulate metabolism, synthesize DNA and produce red blood cells. The average adult human body contains 3,000 to 4,000 milligrams of iron. Iron is stored mainly in your liver. Your body continually loses 1 to 2 milligrams of iron each day through urination, defecation, sweating and the sloughing off of dead skin and intestinal cells. Iron is constantly recycled as red blood cells die. Therefore, some iron can remain in your body indefinitely."

Rec drugs definitely cause you to urinate more than you should, some prescription drugs also alter this. Bowel problems can lead to not only too much defecation but also malabsorption so you are losing iron on two fields, not absorbing it and what you are is being pooped out in the extra bowel movements like if you have more than 3 a day.


I wonder if bodybuilders lose more or use more in the extra building processes going on not found in sedentary individuals or even regular individuals not on anabolic steroids.

It just seems to make sense that higher iron intakes or at least a normal level of iron but supplemented safely as needed can be so beneficial if one is anemic or borderline.

And I think the stats are 1/3 of the WORLDS population is anemic!

Common symptoms of anemia:

1. Rapid heart rate
2. Persistent fatigue
3. Dizziness
4. Memory problems
5. Anxiety / Mood Disorders
6. Paleness
7. Heart palpitations
8. Shortness of breath

There's actually many more.

I want to mention that I'm supplementing the iron very slowly until I get a ferritin transport protein test which is more accurate of anemia than just measuring serum iron levels or even maybe RBC count.

This is because someone with anemia usually has tanked ferritin transport so they may show up as having some iron but the reality is they do not have any iron getting into cells because iron or B12 or folic acid is too low.

It is said though by all mainstream medical associations and bodies that iron deficiency anemia is the most common form.

Most people get enough B12 and folic acid.

Also I am thinking back and all my problematic symptoms ( I have had all of the above for last two or three years) started after giving blood twice. After the second blood donation a few weeks later my heart palpitations started and became a daily thing for the next year.

I did manage to get rid of the palpitations with black walnut after trying that. Maybe it has extra iron in it.

I know we absorb heme iron (the kind found in red meat and dark animal meat etc) the best... Well where do you think they get their iron?

From the food right? What are they being fed?? FUCKING CORN AND GRAIN

And if they're lucky, sometimes other ground up sick animals that died...

Not two centuries ago most of our livestock was eating what my friends??

GRASS. FROM THE EARTH. In soil that wasn't feeding 400 million people in the US. Maybe 50 million.

Farming was different back then. So much less disease my friends.

I feel this is a great revelation.

[liftsiron]

An excess of supplemental iron can cause liver damage, so monitor by blood work.

[warreng]

Adult men cannot excrete iron - that seems to be the consensus. You'll notice that in most multivitamins that are designed for men, there is no iron. Women bleed it out - bleeding is the only way to get rid of it.

[kriegernindo]

Iron deficiency in the human body is a global issue with an impact on more than two billion individuals worldwide. The most important functions ensured by adequate amounts of iron in the body are related to transport and storage of oxygen, electron transfer, mediation of oxidation-reduction reactions, synthesis of hormones, the replication of DNA, cell cycle restoration and control, fixation of nitrogen, and antioxidant effects. In the case of iron deficiency, even marginal insufficiencies may impair the proper functionality of the human body. On the other hand, an excess in iron concentration has a major impact on the gut microbiota composition. There are several non-genetic causes that lead to iron deficiencies, and thus, several approaches in their treatment. The most common methods are related to food fortifications and supplements. In this review, following a summary of iron metabolism and its health implications, we analyzed the scientific literature for the influence of iron fortification and supplementation on the gut microbiome and the effect of probiotics, prebiotics, and/or synbiotics in iron absorption and availability for the organism.

[kriegernindo]

Adult men cannot excrete iron - that seems to be the consensus. You'll notice that in most multivitamins that are designed for men, there is no iron. Women bleed it out - bleeding is the only way to get rid of it.

I'm thinking that's why my quality of living got so bad after those two blood donations. I was like an ox before. I was also anemic probably going into the donation.


Also, there are actually bacteria in our guts that use up iron, and even bacteria like salmonella or clostridium use up iron, so that's a possible way one could become low in iron.

I'll post up some more

And to echo what Liftsiron said, blood work is so important it's how I found out I was very anemic in the first place.

I do want to post up some evidence that shows bleeding is not the only way you lose iron. It's the main way and the largest amount is lost through bleeding, but even though the body recycles a lot of iron, just through living and growing and aging you (or the bacteria in your gut which use iron) must be using SOME of it up at a consistent rate.

[kriegernindo]

Iron and CFS
This appears to impact a subset of CFS patients.

“The results indicate that [CFS] patients had significantly increased serum aluminum and decreased iron compared to controls. In the females, serum iron and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate were significantly decreased and correlated.” [2001]
“We reviewed, in this study, symptoms and syndromes associated with iron deficiency with or without anemia: fatigue, cognitive functions, restless legs syndrome, hair loss, and chronic heart failure. Iron is absorbed through the digestive tract. …Pathogenic micro-organisms or intestinal dysbiosis are suspected to influence iron absorption.” [2014]

https://cfsremission.com/2016/07/03/low-iron-a-gut-bacteria-connection/

It's probably safe to assume the CFS patients didn't all experience major blood loss, however it was worse in the females than males. So they either are losing iron through the body destroying it (pernicious anemia?) Or they never even started with enough in the first place

[kriegernindo]

Below is a table from [2006], some strains are good and other are bad. “Macrophages use iron for production of hydroxy-radical and superoxide reactions, which are necessary for microbial killing. Presumably, as a survival strategy, bacteria, which also require iron for survival, have adapted the ability to sequester iron from the host, thereby limiting the availability to macrophages.” [2007]

[kriegernindo]

Adult men cannot excrete iron - that seems to be the consensus. You'll notice that in most multivitamins that are designed for men, there is no iron. Women bleed it out - bleeding is the only way to get rid of it.

Even from what I'm reading it does say men over 50 still need 8 mg a day.

Iron has to be used up somehow at some rate. If not it would be going against the law of entropy

[kriegernindo]

Also signs of excessive iron overload are pretty apparent

1. Nausea
2. Bad stomach pain
3. Vomiting
4. Joint pain
5. Loss of sex drive
6. Skin colored gray or bronze

[kriegernindo]

An excess of supplemental iron can cause liver damage, so monitor by blood work.

Very important!!! Yes!

[Kluso]

Interesting Kreig!

[Elitet34]

This is when therapeutic phlebotomy becomes tricky. Doctors often see a bodybuilder who is utilizing AAS and sees the RBC, hematocrit, hemoglobin all elevated above 'normal' ranges and immediately tells the patient to go donate or sets up a therapeutic phlebotomy. But, if iron, ferritin are all fine and perfect in range, over phlebotomising would or could certainly cause anemia and unwanted symptoms.

[Roughrydr]

This is when therapeutic phlebotomy becomes tricky. Doctors often see a bodybuilder who is utilizing AAS and sees the RBC, hematocrit, hemoglobin all elevated above 'normal' ranges and immediately tells the patient to go donate or sets up a therapeutic phlebotomy. But, if iron, ferritin are all fine and perfect in range, over phlebotomising would or could certainly cause anemia and unwanted symptoms.

Exactly what happened to me. I wound up on iron supplements, prescribed, for almost two years. And Lufts us right. Too much iron becomes toxic.