Bridging with insulin

[daem]

As many of you know, insulin can produce great results with proper diet or very adverse effects if not used properly.

This afternoon I am starting an extended bridge with insulin (Humalog) until my next cycle sleighted to be in early november. At the end of september I will be running GH alongside of the slin until my 256iu's of serostim are finished.

Right now I am hoping to break the 250 mark while remaining under 9%. Definitely feasible since I am currently hovering around 235 at 8%.

I started today with 5iu's post workout followed by a regimented diet plan that sleights me to eat 15 minutes post workout, 1 hour post workout, and 1.5 hours post workout.

First meal will be entirely liquid so I can get a heavy amount of simple sugars to spike my blood levels. Second meal will be comprised of simple carbs and high amounts of protein to take advantage of the peaking of the slin. The last meal will be a macro balanced meal with complex carbs, a small amount of fat, and a moderate amount of protein.

If any of you have any good personal experience with slin, post anything that you feel is applicable or anything you would have done differently.

[Rickson]

I am a huge fan of bridging with insulin. I have heard people complain about the suppression of IGF but I have never noticed a problem. As you already know be careful about fat intake and also don't take in to much protein on your first two meals as it can inhibit glycogen uptake.

[prolangtum]

I think a common mistake people make is taking in massive amount of carbs. Excess carbs will lead to just as much fat gain as having a Big Mac after a slin shot. I have previously been able to add almost nearly nothing but lean muscle bridging with insulin, but keeping my carbs ultra low. In the 2 hours after the shot, alls i took in was 125g of carbs. 12ius of humalog, 75g of malodextrin and 50g of whey isolate. Then 1 hour later, 50g of carbs from whole wheat bread and a bunch of lean turkey. I only ate 75g of carbs in the morning, so keeping my total carb an cal count moderate, i was able to add almost 10 lbs in 10 weeks on humalog alone post workout only. Im not a fan of 2x a day injects, IMO it is not needed, could be more detrimental down the road, and makes it easier to store fat. Im also not a fan of humulin. Insulin by nature of its action, blocks fat from being released into the bloodstream and being used for energy. Therefore with humulin, you have an extra 2-4 hours more than humalog that your are not using fat you normally would for fuel.

[prolangtum]

Ive posted this study a few times on FG

Post cycle insulin use may have merit
This seems to lend some support:

Insulin enhancement of luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone release by cultured pituitary cells.

Adashi EY, Hsueh AJ, Yen SS.

The role of insulin in the regulation of basal and gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH)-stimulated release of LH and FSH was investigated in vitro using primary cultures of rat anterior pituitary cells from adult ovariectomized rats. Anterior pituitary cells were incubated for 2 days in the presence or absence of insulin in a serum-free medium. At the end of the insulin treatment, the cells were washed and reincubated in the presence or absence of GnRH, and the LH and FSH released into the medium were measured by RIA. Treatment with insulin (1.0 microgram/ml) for 2 days resulted in significant increases in both the basal and the maximal release of LH and FSH, as well as a 3.2- and 6.3-fold decrease in the ED50 values for GnRH in terms of LH and FSH release, respectively. Treatment with increasing concentrations (0.1-10,000 ng/ml) of insulin, led to a dose-dependent increase in the GnRH (3 X 10(-10) M)-stimulated release of both LH and FSH. This effect of insulin was significant (P less than 0.05) at a physiological concentration of 1 ng/ml (24 microU/ml) with an ED50 value of 40 ng/ml. Increasing duration of exposure to insulin resulted in time-dependent increases in the GnRH (3 X 10(-10) M)-stimulated release of LH, becoming significant at 24 h with maximal enhancement observed by 48 h. The effect of insulin was specific; epidermal or fibroblast growth factor did not enhance LH release. The augmenting effect of insulin was not associated with cellular proliferation or an overall change in protein or LH synthesis. Furthermore, the effect of insulin was independent of the ambient glucose concentration. Insulin was, however, without effect on gonadotrophs cultured in a serum-supplemented medium. Our findings suggest that the gonadotroph constitutes a target cell of insulin and that insulin may act directly on the anterior pituitary in the regulation of gonadotropin release.

PMID: 6781875 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[daem]

<!--QuoteBegin-prolangtum+Jul 5 2003, 11:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (prolangtum @ Jul 5 2003, 11:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think a common mistake people make is taking in massive amount of carbs. Excess carbs will lead to just as much fat gain as having a Big Mac after a slin shot. I have previously been able to add almost nearly nothing but lean muscle bridging with insulin, but keeping my carbs ultra low. In the 2 hours after the shot, alls i took in was 125g of carbs. 12ius of humalog, 75g of malodextrin and 50g of whey isolate. Then 1 hour later, 50g of carbs from whole wheat bread and a bunch of lean turkey. I only ate 75g of carbs in the morning, so keeping my total carb an cal count moderate, i was able to add almost 10 lbs in 10 weeks on humalog alone post workout only. Im not a fan of 2x a day injects, IMO it is not needed, could be more detrimental down the road, and makes it easier to store fat. Im also not a fan of humulin. Insulin by nature of its action, blocks fat from being released into the bloodstream and being used for energy. Therefore with humulin, you have an extra 2-4 hours more than humalog that your are not using fat you normally would for fuel. [/b][/quote]
Thanks for the input so far guys, good advice and I totally agree with you about the humulin taking away from fat burning capabilities.

Although it may be cheezy, I am going to keep a running slin diary for educational purposes in the results forum. As I don&#39;t have all the time in the world, what I post here will be the same as on AR.

[xxxl83]

Some very good information here guys. This is a topic I will be researching for future use. I&#39;ve always stayed away from insulin but lately I&#39;ve been curious as to what kind of gains I can make bridging with slin only.

I&#39;ve got a few questions:
1. For beginner use I thought humilin-R was the safest choice?
2. How do you determine how much carbs to ingest post injection?
3. What would be the best form of carbs post injection?
4. How effective is using Insulin only as a bridge?

xxxl83

[prolangtum]

<!--QuoteBegin-xxxl83+Jul 5 2003, 06:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (xxxl83 @ Jul 5 2003, 06:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Some very good information here guys. This is a topic I will be researching for future use. I&#39;ve always stayed away from insulin but lately I&#39;ve been curious as to what kind of gains I can make bridging with slin only.

I&#39;ve got a few questions:
1. For beginner use I thought humilin-R was the safest choice?
2. How do you determine how much carbs to ingest post injection?
3. What would be the best form of carbs post injection?
4. How effective is using Insulin only as a bridge?

xxxl83 [/b][/quote]
Mind you these are all opinions nothing abotu insulin and bodybuilding is fact.

1. Easiest to obtain, yes. Safest? No. Peaks are the same. You know humalog will peak within 15-20 minutes, sometimes less. So, inject, and then drink shake. Humulin has hit me anywhere from 30 minutes, all the way to an hour and 15 minutes.
2. Start off with 10g of carbs per iu, regardless of dosage. Usually starting at 5ius post workout, working up to 10. Cruise at 10ius for a week, then try to slowly lower your carbs 10-15g per shot, access your tolerance. I can go as low as 4 or 5g of carbs per iu, but everyone is different.
3. I would suggest for the beginner, a home made 50/50 mix of malodextrin and dextrose. Both can be found at bulknutrition.com for very cheap. Add in 5-10g of creatine. Also, i will soon post why i believe 1/2 a shot glass full of vinegar is also essential too.
4. Diet in check, working out till glycogen reserves are depleted, timing nutrients, etc, it can be very affective, i know of some who are not cycling anabolics anymore, just cycling on and off insulin, but IMO AAS and PHs are safer in the long run.

[daem]

<!--QuoteBegin-xxxl83+Jul 5 2003, 06:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (xxxl83 @ Jul 5 2003, 06:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Some very good information here guys. This is a topic I will be researching for future use. I&#39;ve always stayed away from insulin but lately I&#39;ve been curious as to what kind of gains I can make bridging with slin only.

I&#39;ve got a few questions:
1. For beginner use I thought humilin-R was the safest choice?
2. How do you determine how much carbs to ingest post injection?
3. What would be the best form of carbs post injection?
4. How effective is using Insulin only as a bridge?

xxxl83 [/b][/quote]
1.) since the window of opportunity for nutrient shuttling is smaller with humalog, humulin-r is recommended since you aren&#39;t hit at once with hypoglycemic effects. advanced users feel humalog is better since you aren&#39;t having insulin levels effected for as long as with the humulin.

2.) those ratios can go from 5-15 carbs per 1 iu injected.

3.) simple sugars provide simple carbohydrates that are immediately used by the body. anything with dextrose or other simple sugars is good. cell tech has like 78g of sugar per serving, so it is perfect to match immediately after injection.

4.) supposedly one of the best types of bridges with minimal effects if you do it properly, but we will see how my experience goes

[daem]

<!--QuoteBegin-prolangtum+Jul 5 2003, 08:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (prolangtum @ Jul 5 2003, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->

Also, i will soon post why i believe 1/2 a shot glass full of vinegar is also essential too.
[/b]

i want to hear what function that serves

[xxxl83]

Prolangtum+ Daem,

Thanks for the responses guys good info and all will be taken into careful consideration.

Daem,

First off thanks for this "diary" as I&#39;m sure it will help alot of people, myself included. (I also noticed you posted this at AR).
Second congrats for your new found Mod status here.

xxxl83

[house1]

great stuff guys

[daem]

<!--QuoteBegin-xxxl83+Jul 5 2003, 08:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (xxxl83 @ Jul 5 2003, 08:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Daem,

First off thanks for this "diary" as I&#39;m sure it will help alot of people, myself included. (I also noticed you posted this at AR).
Second congrats for your new found Mod status here.

xxxl83 [/b][/quote]
thanks bro, great to see you aboard as long as my account of using slin as a bridge helps one person it has done its job.