High dosing, lower frequency? Or standard 5 on 2 off?

[Ironman404]

Hey guys,

I'm going to be running some GH with my AAS.

I've ran 2 ius/day for almost 4 months with little to no benefit that I can see. I ran it at 4 ius/day for about 3 weeks, but cut back because my hands were numb 24/7 lol.

My main goal is size. I plan on running 30 ius/week.

One protocol I've come across is 10ius post workout, mon/wed/Fri. Now, since I ingest carbs post workout...will that negatively impact the GH? I have read mixed info on this.

The other protocol is the more standard 6 ius per day, 5 days per week...split up AM and pre or post workout.


Thoughts?

[liftsiron]

I told you my thoughts.

Let's get some opinions guys.

[Moto Ace]

4ius pre cardio and post workout, five days a week works great for me.

[HDH]

I just like to jab myself everyday so I go 7 days

Actually I do feel like I'm getting more of a benefit from the 7 days. I feel like I'm missing out on two days of extra growth. I keep the same training routine so I want each day of training to have the same benefits from the GH.

In the end, I believe IGF levels will more than likely be the same but the vid below changed my mind a little on timing even if levels stay the same by the weekly amount and not the daily amount.

I train in the morning so pre workout and then before bedtime. Since we do most of our healing and growing while we sleep, it seems a very good time to have the GH running through us.

Here is a vid on GH pre workout, it's Dr. Serrano and John Meadows is holding the camera and talking-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1D848GvZZQ

This vid opened my eyes a little to benefits of timing while levels remain the same.

H

[Darkness]

I used 4 and 5 iu per day post workout with good results gaining lean size and everything else the GH does for your looks. You OP has good insights when you mentioned the carbs... You're on the right track.

So timing is everything!

I did this:

Inject four or five iu immediately post workout.

Once the GH is systemic, it triggers a natural IGF pulse in roughly 15 to 20 minutes. The IGF pulse triggers a natural insulin pulse about 15 after that. So, your body has high levels of Yummie muscle-feeding natural insulin, IFG and GH about 30 to 40 min after the injection. Insulin is indeed what will shuttle the goods to you eat to the muscles next.

Eat your great big, highly nutritious, carb dense meal 30 to 40 minutes after the injection. Not sooner!!! If you do, you will blunt the insulin response and this whole thing is just a hand number.

EAT NO FATS for 120 minutes after the injection!!! This is the difference between being a lean bulk and a fat bastard. Consuming fats in a high insulin environment will force lipid storage as well as be the strongest blunt to the Yummie insulin spike. Keep the initial meal as protein, carbs, and ZERO fats. Huge detail that is often overlooked.

Glycomann taught us this GH axis in many of his threads about GH and GHRP. He helped me apply that to the GH cycles I was doing and explained why. That's how it worked so well for me.

[Ironman404]

I used 4 and 5 iu per day post workout with good results gaining lean size and everything else the GH does for your looks. You OP has good insights when you mentioned the carbs... You're on the right track.

So timing is everything!

I did this:

Inject four or five iu immediately post workout.

Once the GH is systemic, it triggers a natural IGF pulse in roughly 15 to 20 minutes. The IGF pulse triggers a natural insulin pulse about 15 after that. So, your body has high levels of Yummie muscle-feeding natural insulin, IFG and GH about 30 to 40 min after the injection. Insulin is indeed what will shuttle the goods to you eat to the muscles next.

Eat your great big, highly nutritious, carb dense meal 30 to 40 minutes after the injection. Not sooner!!! If you do, you will blunt the insulin response and this whole thing is just a hand number.

EAT NO FATS for 120 minutes after the injection!!! This is the difference between being a lean bulk and a fat bastard. Consuming fats in a high insulin environment will force lipid storage as well as be the strongest blunt to the Yummie insulin spike. Keep the initial meal as protein, carbs, and ZERO fats. Huge detail that is often overlooked.

Glycomann taught us this GH axis in many of his threads about GH and GHRP. He helped me apply that to the GH cycles I was doing and explained why. That's how it worked so well for me.

Excellent advice from every one here!


I like the science behind this partitular approach.

I guess I'll start at 4 ius per day and see how that treats me.

[Darkness]

Excellent advice from every one here!


I like the science behind this partitular approach.

I guess I'll start at 4 ius per day and see how that treats me.

Don't be afraid to pile in the protein and carbs. I used egg whites and white rice for my post workout meal. 50g protein and 120g carbs. Some may want to adjust the carbs for their body type, but you should tolerate a shit load with the GH and the zero fat content. I think if you were going to use 10iu of GH then you'd have to get twice as many carbs in you for the GH to have the best bulking effect. Otherwise it's kinda wasted at least in one regard.

The advanced future phase of this plan once you have this dialed in would be to amplify the natural IGF pulse by injecting a dose of IGF at the same time your body pulses it, about 15 min after the GH injection. That means more GH plus more insulin. Which means more carbs needed. A third highly advanced phase would be GH then 15 min later amplify with IGF, then 15 minutes after that aolify the Natty insulin pulse with a small insulin injection. Then you have the whole GH axis response amplified exactly the way your body expected to see it. This means up the carbs again. I did this but I had some challenges getting the carbs dialed in since I had elevated insulin plus the exogenously injected insulin. Had a couple episodes of not having enough carbs and about went down. Error on the high side. I wouldn't do the advanced phases until you get the first one I described dialed in and pack on some meat. That way if you decide to add other hormones you'll be sensitive to them.

[Ironman404]

Don't be afraid to pile in the protein and carbs. I used egg whites and white rice for my post workout meal. 50g protein and 120g carbs. Some may want to adjust the carbs for their body type, but you should tolerate a shit load with the GH and the zero fat content. I think if you were going to use 10iu of GH then you'd have to get twice as many carbs in you for the GH to have the best bulking effect. Otherwise it's kinda wasted at least in one regard.

The advanced future phase of this plan once you have this dialed in would be to amplify the natural IGF pulse by injecting a dose of IGF at the same time your body pulses it, about 15 min after the GH injection. That means more GH plus more insulin. Which means more carbs needed. A third highly advanced phase would be GH then 15 min later amplify with IGF, then 15 minutes after that aolify the Natty insulin pulse with a small insulin injection. Then you have the whole GH axis response amplified exactly the way your body expected to see it. This means up the carbs again. I did this but I had some challenges getting the carbs dialed in since I had elevated insulin plus the exogenously injected insulin. Had a couple episodes of not having enough carbs and about went down. Error on the high side. I wouldn't do the advanced phases until you get the first one I described dialed in and pack on some meat. That way if you decide to add other hormones you'll be sensitive to them.

Wow thanks for t he detail man!

I'll definitely just start with phase one.

So, immediately post workout, inject the GH. Can I have my protein shake with creatine then as well? That shouldn't blunt any of the effects correct?

Also - this may be a silly question, but I transport my GH with me on ice in a tupperware container...don't want it at room temperature too long. Is that the best way to do it?

[Ironman404]

I told you my thoughts.

Let's get some opinions guys.

Thanks for bringing me over here...you have some GREAT guys around.

[Darkness]

Wow thanks for t he detail man!

I'll definitely just start with phase one.

So, immediately post workout, inject the GH. Can I have my protein shake with creatine then as well? That shouldn't blunt any of the effects correct?

Also - this may be a silly question, but I transport my GH with me on ice in a tupperware container...don't want it at room temperature too long. Is that the best way to do it?

1. I would wait until I had my full insulin buildup before the protein and creatine. Insulin is what is shuttling both of these to the muscle tissue. Carbs at same time this is biggest bang for your buck. Also, imho, I wouldn't waste the best meal opportunity of the day on some whey protein garbage. It would be real protein. Egg whites most practical here. Add your favorite aminos at this time too if you got em.

2. That's what I used to do. Had a little shaker cup with some ice in it out in the truck with a preloaded pin.

[Ironman404]

1. I would wait until I had my full insulin buildup before the protein and creatine. Insulin is what is shuttling both of these to the muscle tissue. Carbs at same time this is biggest bang for your buck. Also, imho, I wouldn't waste the best meal opportunity of the day on some whey protein garbage. It would be real protein. Egg whites most practical here. Add your favorite aminos at this time too if you got em.

2. That's what I used to do. Had a little shaker cup with some ice in it out in the truck with a preloaded pin.

Ok that makes sense.

My thought though, is to take the protein shake as I'm finishing my workout....since it will almost an hour until I have my big meal right? Then, once the insulin spike is in place, I can have my big meal and just throw in some creatine with aminos?

[Darkness]

I don't have any experience with doing it that way. I guess if it were no carbs it would fine. Except that you only produce so much enzyme to digest protein and if you hit a protein shake immediately that has 60g then 50g of real stuff, don't know if you're gonna get all of the second 50 or if half of it will dissipate as fart gas. Idk.

I think whey is garbage though and I know that's off topic. We try real hard to avoid processed foods then worship this shit that is processed of all processed foods, and our bodies torch the shit. When I stopped using whey I literally gained 10 lbs of meat, and looked SO much leaner because that layer of gunk went away under my skin from all the processed fillers. And if you think your fancy whey isolate has no fillers, weigh a scoop and tell me if it weighs more than the protein content listed. It will. What's the rest of the weight? It's that gunk.

[Ironman404]

I don't have any experience with doing it that way. I guess if it were no carbs it would fine. Except that you only produce so much enzyme to digest protein and if you hit a protein shake immediately that has 60g then 50g of real stuff, don't know if you're gonna get all of the second 50 or if half of it will dissipate as fart gas. Idk.

I think whey is garbage though and I know that's off topic. We try real hard to avoid processed foods then worship this shit that is processed of all processed foods, and our bodies torch the shit. When I stopped using whey I literally gained 10 lbs of meat, and looked SO much leaner because that layer of gunk went away under my skin from all the processed fillers. And if you think your fancy whey isolate has no fillers, weigh a scoop and tell me if it weighs more than the protein content listed. It will. What's the rest of the weight? It's that gunk.

That's an interesting point of view.

And I don't disagree with you that whey probably isn't the best source of protein lol...but I just can't imagine how I would get in the necessary amount of protein without a few shakes.

[bufbiker]

Great advice darkness.

[TheMuscleMan]

I think Palumbo said to take your weekly hgh amount and divide it by 3 and take that much mon, wed, fri. Like if you do 6ius a day 5 days a week then take 30ius divided by 3 and do 10ius on mon, wed, fri. This would be for bulk I believe he was saying.

Thanks
TMM