Good long ester post!

[liftsiron]

This was on WCBB

Originally Posted by Juice Authority
Having done numerous cycles of this or that I'm back to basics. Short acting esters (Prop, Tren A, TNE, Susp, etc.) certainly have their place but for me, I think the gains are easier to maintain with longer esters like Cyp, Test E, Tren E, EQ, and Deca.

So often you hear about kickstarting with an oral or fast acting compound only to have the gains decrease after discontinuation. Kickstarting is for impatient mofos like me that are unwilling to wait for the longer esters to kick in. I think there is logic to the concept of "growing into your cycle". On almost every cycle I hit a plateau. That's where an oral or a fast acting ester can come into play - to break through plateaus.

Then you hear about these "cutting" versus "bulking" cycles. You can "cut" on any compound including dbol. dbol + AI = bloat free growth. Are some compounds better than other for "cutting"? Sure, but the central fact remains you can cut or bulk on any compound if you understand how to control estrogen.

[Joe0690]

i love just using short acting esters i dont like being on my cycle to long i usually get off around 10 weeks if i feel brave i would push it to 12, but usually only 10 at the most. if i hit a plateau its usually around week 8. i never thought of using an oral then to help me boost through that

[b52]

This was on WCBB

Originally Posted by Juice Authority
Having done numerous cycles of this or that I'm back to basics. Short acting esters (Prop, Tren A, TNE, Susp, etc.) certainly have their place but for me, I think the gains are easier to maintain with longer esters like Cyp, Test E, Tren E, EQ, and Deca.

So often you hear about kickstarting with an oral or fast acting compound only to have the gains decrease after discontinuation. Kickstarting is for impatient mofos like me that are unwilling to wait for the longer esters to kick in. I think there is logic to the concept of "growing into your cycle". On almost every cycle I hit a plateau. That's where an oral or a fast acting ester can come into play - to break through plateaus.

Then you hear about these "cutting" versus "bulking" cycles. You can "cut" on any compound including dbol. dbol + AI = bloat free growth. Are some compounds better than other for "cutting"? Sure, but the central fact remains you can cut or bulk on any compound if you understand how to control estrogen.

I'm a fan of short esters. In all honesty, I don't see the difference in maintaining gains whether it is a short ester or a long ester. And just because you run an AI with a compound does not mean you are going to get bloat free growth. I have run many cycles, with AI's and while it definitely does control bloat, it does not eliminate it. Especially with compounds such as dbol. I believe the high nitrogen balance while on dbol causes some of the bloat, not just estrogen conversion.

Even with suicide inhibitors such as aromasin, you are not guaranteed to be bloat free. your body responds to the inactive receptors by making new ones, so there is always going to be the chance that estrogen will find it's way to an unblocked receptor, or a new one. It's like filtered water. While filtering gets most of the contaminants out, it doesn't get all of them. there's always something that will find it's way through, even if it's a miniscule amount.

[Trapology]

Always used long esters

Ive been able to accomplish all of my goals with them (getting big or lean) and never had any problems

[liftsiron]

Even with suicide inhibitors such as aromasin, you are not guaranteed to be bloat free. your body responds to the inactive receptors by making new ones, so there is always going to be the chance that estrogen will find it's way to an unblocked receptor, or a new one. It's like filtered water. While filtering gets most of the contaminants out, it doesn't get all of them. there's always something that will find it's way through, even if it's a miniscule amount.

With AI's it doesn't matter how many estrogen receptors you have because an AI does not block receptors, it prevents the conversion of test to estrogen by stopping production of 5alpha reductase the enzyme necessary for estrogen conversion. Nolvadex blocks the E receptor, an AI prevents estrogen in the first place.

[b52]

With AI's it doesn't matter how many estrogen receptors you have because an AI does not block receptors, it prevents the conversion of test to estrogen by stopping production of 5alpha reductase the enzyme necessary for estrogen conversion. Nolvadex blocks the E receptor, an AI prevents estrogen in the first place.

Yes it will prevent but not eliminate. Aromasin is an AI is it not, unless i'm getting it mixed up with letro or a-dex, which could be. It attaches to the E receptor and permanently blocks it. but even so an AI is not going to block estrogen conversion 100% Nothing does.

[liftsiron]

Yes it will prevent but not eliminate. Aromasin is an AI is it not, unless i'm getting it mixed up with letro or a-dex, which could be. It attaches to the E receptor and permanently blocks it.

You got it wrong bro all three block the aromatase enzyme not the E receptor. Aromasin and letro can reduce E to near zero which IMO isn't really good either. AI's prevent the aromatase enzyme (5alpha reductase) from working. I stated they block it's production, I meant by blocking the enzyme action AI's prevent estrogen production.

[b52]

You got it wrong bro all three block the aromatase enzyme not the E receptor. Aromasin and letro can reduce E to near zero which IMO isn't really good either.

NVM, you got me there. lol I thought about it for a minute, and realized you are right. Man did i just confuse myself. I was ready to argue that point to the death, lol

[Deacon]

I agree - good post - short esters are good for certain things but IMO long esters for more of your goals are the best

[bigscott]

i like to use both ---- right now i jump started my current setup with 6 week ed injects of sust ... then i will switch over to test e and tren e and run that till my diet starts for the nationals but keep the test e right too the show

[Mr Incredible]

I agree Lifts, long esters for me have worked better. the gradual build up is much more retainable and sensible. The problem with alot of short esters is that very rapid gain in strength also, often causes injury.

Bigscotts on a different level really with his tendons ready for an onslaught at any time lol!

[DADAWG]

long esters ran for longer moderate cycles are best IMO.

[Joe0690]

i dont like longer esters maybe i dont run them long enough but i love test prop will always use it lol

[EddieSpaghetti]

I agree with y'all 100% I thought it was just me... but It seems that I need to run cyp or enan. really high to achieve any effect at all (and no im not just being impatient).

While with cyp. I run steady @ a gram and a half a week I'll respond.
When running prop. on the other hand, I can get away with hitting 100mg EOD and I'll feel all Swole

[NTG]

I like both. If I don't have to worry about bloat or anything ad I hav nothig upcoming in the near future I like longs. If i need to controll it for some reason I go with shorts and an ai.

Lifts about aromison, doesn't it let it convert it just doesn't let it bind to the receptor right?

I just stick to letro if I need it. Like someone said above I use it when I cut. I just switch to short esters and add letro. With that I can cut on any compound.
NTG