What is your PCT of choice?

[Bananas]

For people that do PCT, post your protocol.

people that are going to post "i dont believe in PCT" or "i dont do pct" you can skip the thread and save some data.. I am looking at you Buf.. :eyes::eyes:

DPH i want to know yours.. back when you were cycling. i hear now a days you are just blasting and getting ready for the Masters O

 

[Guest]

Nolva usually 40 mg for two weeks followed by two weeks twenty. Or sometimes I do 40 ,30,20 one week each I don't tend to do much for pct

 

[liftsiron]

When I used to do pct. I would run clomid 100mgs nolva 40mgs for two weeks then clomid 50mgs nolva 20mgs for another 2-4 weeks.

 

[bufbiker]

None. If I have issues I use some arimidex until sensitivity or puffiness goes away.
My thinking is why not let the body do what it does best, which is heal itself. All tge chemicals you're adding for pct is not bringing you back to a natural state. It's still an artificial state. I ran 5 years straight at full hard core cycle strengths. My pct was a simple test taper down. Arimidex for a couple of weeks.
My body has done great at getting back up and running.
But I might not be normal.
I do know I've talked to many guys that ran the usual pct protocols and had ed or gyno issues. I don't really run anything and had more problems on cycle, usually like deca dick, than coming off. Just sayin........

 

[Dawgpound_Hank]

Bananas I start by tapering down. So if I'm running test e at 500 ew, the last 3 weeks would be 300, 200, 100. Then 10 days after that last poke I run nolva for 4 weeks - 40, 20, 20, 20. Back when I ran heavier cycles I would run nolva 40, 40, 20, 20, 20.

 

[Bananas]

Bananas I start by tapering down. So if I'm running test e at 500 ew, the last 3 weeks would be 300, 200, 100. Then 10 days after that last poke I run nolva for 4 weeks - 40, 20, 20, 20. Back when I ran heavier cycles I would run nolva 40, 40, 20, 20, 20.

how do you utilize HCG?

LI you too?

 

[Bananas]

Bananas I start by tapering down. So if I'm running test e at 500 ew, the last 3 weeks would be 300, 200, 100. Then 10 days after that last poke I run nolva for 4 weeks - 40, 20, 20, 20. Back when I ran heavier cycles I would run nolva 40, 40, 20, 20, 20.

how do you utilize HCG?

LI you too? do you guys just use it weekly while "on"

 

[Glycomann]

I think I've done it a 100 ways from Sunday. In the 80s and 90s I did no PCT other than taper down some sometimes. That seemed to help. Once I came back to this in 2007 I used PCT. It makes a difference for me. I use hCG the last few weeks of a cycle and the first 3 weeks off. I start the clomid after a week off. Then after 3 weeks of Clomid I switch to nolvadex for another 3 weeks. So the PCT lasts 6 weeks past the last shot. It's all pretty low dose. 1500 iu hCG a week, 25 mg Clomid a day and 20 mg Nolvadex a day. I'm really just tickling my balls and brain bits. It seemed to work in the past. Test would comes back in the 500 - 600 ng/dL range in 12-16 weeks. It doesn't work as well now or else I am recovering more slowly than before.

 

[liftsiron]

I don't use hcg, however if you are, you should run it at 400-500 twice per week durning the cycle and not for pct.

 

[Glycomann]

I don't use hcg, however if you are, you should run it at 400-500 twice per week durning the cycle and not for pct.

I time it all so that the nads are up and running while the hypothalamus and pit are coming on line.

 

[Glycomann]

I think almost no one gets away with cycleing a bunch of time then coming off and keeping most of the gains. I've only known a few guys over 30 years that could do it and at least a couple of those guys were using GH or something else while off AAS. Most of us yoyo going on and coming off long enough tor recover to our base HPTA state. So what we have here is a catch 22. Plus the longer you cycle the longer it takes to recover completely. the only way to reset that issue is to come off for a really long time like 2-3 years and then come back to the catch 22. So there are a few choices.

1. Accept the catch 22 and do the Duncan yoyo.
2. Blast and cruise, which is not healthy in the long run.
3. Take brief breaks and periods of strictly TRT.
4. stay on other growth and recovery meds/supps when off AAS

That's pretty much the bare bones of it. if you are going to stay on a long time of blast and cruise even a blast true TRT then you should keep an eye on red cells and donate as needed, normally every 8-12 weeks. In all cased we should get bloods done at least once a year and preferably at least twice a year.

Even with PCT there is loss of gains. PCT can soften the landing but the fall in altitude is basically the same over time. I don't think there is a magic formula where one can be really safe and keep all the gains. There will be a trade-off. If you are a big dude before using AAS and other stuff then you most likely can be that big dude again + 15-25% of those artificial gains. That isn't really that bad. So if you start at 190 and go up to 225. That means that you can keep 5-10 lbs of real muscle. Personally when I went off for 10 years I kept more than that but I was in my 30s. I probably kept about 10-12 lbs. It took 2 years to fully recover but then I was able to add another 5-6 lbs naturally over the next 7 years training naturally. Last time I went off for a long time was about 7 years ago and I was off for about 8 months. I ended up at 195 and pretty lean at 5'8" with test in the 500-600 ng/dL range. When I started this in my late 20s I was a muscular strong 175 and fighting in the 172 lb class deadlifting 550 and benching over 300. So all said and done I probably put on 20 lbs of real muscle and kept it for decades.

So the moral of my journy is that the human body is more forgiving than we might think. It can take a lot of punishment both in the gym and with hormone manipulation and still bounce back for decades. It isn't comfortable but with fortitude one can go back and forth between exogenous manipulation to normal endogenous endocrine function. In the end what you gain is the gains faster. I think I probably would have gone from 175 to 195 naturally in time but I never would have been 230 like I was for a while. So in the end my body would support what would have been my total natural gains over decades but not much more. I'm off right now and on PCT and headed back down to 195 for sure.

 

[Bananas]

I think almost no one gets away with cycleing a bunch of time then coming off and keeping most of the gains. I've only known a few guys over 30 years that could do it and at least a couple of those guys were using GH or something else while off AAS. Most of us yoyo going on and coming off long enough tor recover to our base HPTA state. So what we have here is a catch 22. Plus the longer you cycle the longer it takes to recover completely. the only way to reset that issue is to come off for a really long time like 2-3 years and then come back to the catch 22. So there are a few choices.

1. Accept the catch 22 and do the Duncan yoyo.
2. Blast and cruise, which is not healthy in the long run.
3. Take brief breaks and periods of strictly TRT.
4. stay on other growth and recovery meds/supps when off AAS

That's pretty much the bare bones of it. if you are going to stay on a long time of blast and cruise even a blast true TRT then you should keep an eye on red cells and donate as needed, normally every 8-12 weeks. In all cased we should get bloods done at least once a year and preferably at least twice a year.

Even with PCT there is loss of gains. PCT can soften the landing but the fall in altitude is basically the same over time. I don't think there is a magic formula where one can be really safe and keep all the gains. There will be a trade-off. If you are a big dude before using AAS and other stuff then you most likely can be that big dude again + 15-25% of those artificial gains. That isn't really that bad. So if you start at 190 and go up to 225. That means that you can keep 5-10 lbs of real muscle. Personally when I went off for 10 years I kept more than that but I was in my 30s. I probably kept about 10-12 lbs. It took 2 years to fully recover but then I was able to add another 5-6 lbs naturally over the next 7 years training naturally. Last time I went off for a long time was about 7 years ago and I was off for about 8 months. I ended up at 195 and pretty lean at 5'8" with test in the 500-600 ng/dL range. When I started this in my late 20s I was a muscular strong 175 and fighting in the 172 lb class deadlifting 550 and benching over 300. So all said and done I probably put on 20 lbs of real muscle and kept it for decades.

So the moral of my journy is that the human body is more forgiving than we might think. It can take a lot of punishment both in the gym and with hormone manipulation and still bounce back for decades. It isn't comfortable but with fortitude one can go back and forth between exogenous manipulation to normal endogenous endocrine function. In the end what you gain is the gains faster. I think I probably would have gone from 175 to 195 naturally in time but I never would have been 230 like I was for a while. So in the end my body would support what would have been my total natural gains over decades but not much more. I'm off right now and on PCT and headed back down to 195 for sure.

Amen. You are spot on.. I am not worried about losing size or not looking "swole" but I hate the lethargy/ fatigue and wanting to be in bed by 8 pm

 

[Dawgpound_Hank]

I only used HCG one time on like my first or second cycle bcoz I thought I needed it. In the end, no gains are permanent no matter what protocol you use if you come off long enough. Cracks me up to hear guys saying they keep all their gains, when they only come off for 6-8 weeks between cycles.

What I do know is this. If you take a younger guy with only a year or two training, and he does a cycle, he will probably keep more, bcoz he still had alot of natty gains to come anyway, and AAS helped speed up the process. Of course that's assuming he continues to train & eat right when cycle is finished.

You take a guy like me, who has been lifting hardcore for 38 years, well it doesn't work like that. Most gains I make from AAS are lost if I come off long enough. Simply being, I have no more natty gains to be made - I peaked out long ago man haha. An while it sucks coming off and seeing that full, massive look & strength slowly fade away, I am a realist, and know it's going to happen. Now if I did GH or some peptides between cycles, I perhaps may hold more of those gains, but for me, due to family life, it's not feasible for me to be poking every day, so.

In a nutshell, guys don't want to come off or stay off long enough bcoz much of the gainz DO go away. Hell I'm one of them, but I man up & do it's gotta be done. Not like I compete or making $$$ at it haha.

 

[Bananas]

I think I've done it a 100 ways from Sunday. In the 80s and 90s I did no PCT other than taper down some sometimes. That seemed to help. Once I came back to this in 2007 I used PCT. It makes a difference for me. I use hCG the last few weeks of a cycle and the first 3 weeks off. I start the clomid after a week off. Then after 3 weeks of Clomid I switch to nolvadex for another 3 weeks. So the PCT lasts 6 weeks past the last shot. It's all pretty low dose. 1500 iu hCG a week, 25 mg Clomid a day and 20 mg Nolvadex a day. I'm really just tickling my balls and brain bits. It seemed to work in the past. Test would comes back in the 500 - 600 ng/dL range in 12-16 weeks. It doesn't work as well now or else I am recovering more slowly than before.

Since you are one of the few people that has frequent level checks, I have a question for you.

Do you notice a difference between 500-600 level from Clomid vs 500-600 level from HCG or TRT with regards to
a) Energy
b) recovery and pump in gym
c) mood

 

[alluprbdy]

The PCT protocol I give to friends who cycle on and off, I blast and cruise and have since 24 so it's been several years since I have had personal experience but I have used this with them successfully. And this is for people who have been on for 20 weeks or so, therefore it's aggressive.

-HCG 250iu 3x a week last 6 weeks of the cycle

-(Depending on what compound(s) will effect timing but let's just say it was finished off with Test E for simplicity.

*7 Day's after last injection of Test start pharm grade clomid/nolva regiment*

Nolva: 40/40/20/20/10/10 (per day mg for 6 weeks)

Clomid: 100/100/50/50/25/25 (per day mg for 6 weeks)

(That being said, they eventually go back on so it isn't like this is a PCT for the rest of their lifetime)